Dark Ages of the game - My opinion on the state of the game

[ChrysOCE]

Finding the city of gold, it was really cool how they did it with it in the background creeping towards you in Skydeep Cenote.

Learning all about the giants and being on top of the mountain like that.

Fighting Valigarmanda.

Learning about the battle and Wuk's father in Yak T'el.

Pretty much anything and everything that involved Gulool Ja Ja.

If nothing else, Bakool Ja Ja was a fun and comical villain... until he wasn't.

Finally meeting the legendary Ketenramm, long assumed dead and a historical figure.

Although a sudden theme change, I can dig a zone stereotyping westerns.

Mainly in that Stormblood was Lyse's story with her as narrator and the idea seemed like she would eventually lead Ala Mhigo, a similar overall premise, but there was another more qualified person for that job and SE couldn't ignore it - Raubahn. And the fact the story was split between two unrelated sections of the map like Dawntrail.

Fair enough. Personally, I found nothing about those zones or the MSQ exciting.
City of Gold was actually probably the only part that was a highlight, granted. The travel into Mamook and the literal travel to the Gold City. It's such a pity the actual MSQ part was so rubbish...

Ketenramm had no meaning to me. He might have been a historical figure in the story but, really, was a nobody to me. When was Ketenramm first even mentioned, in MSQ?

Personally, I hated Shaaloani. Absolutely boring to me, with it's western setting and overall MSQ plot. The whole western vibe seemed like such a strange thing. Just because there is some South/Central America themes, some Native American - well, better have Cowboys and Indians. Maybe there are other places, in FFXIV like that, and I just haven't noticed them. But that zone, in particular, just felt like lazy design.


But Lyse wasn't a overpowering figure, present in practically all quests, requiring you to speak to her and accompany her throughout the MSQ, from start to finish. It is not really a similar comparison to their presence within the MSQ.

[ChrysOCE]

Dont forget in Stmblood we went to save the ppl in Doma and fight in Gyr Abania on our own accord, however in DT it was Wuk Lamat who personally came to recruit a champion who will assist her in claiming the throne, so in DT it makes sense that the story revolves around Wuk Lamat and WoL interacts a lot with her since it was WoL's choice to journey alongside her. The initial adventure itself in Tulliyolal was very fun and exciting, it was like exploring a brand new place meeting ppl and doing the story there (one of the high points). The moment when Gulool Ja Ja personally requested WoL for a fight was badass, and there are several moments like Zoraal Ja and Bakool Ja Ja who made the journey fun.

Yes, I distinctly remember being asked by Graha what I thought about being recruited by Wuk. In fact, here's the text from that post-EW dialogue with the option I chose:
> I'd rather not get involved in politics.
G'raha Tia: If only others had the same good sense.
G'raha Tia: If the prospect troubles you so, why not consider what you stand to gain instead? That is, an exciting journey to a faraway continent.
G'raha Tia: In the course of seeing new lands and meeting new people, you might find yourself moved to help Wuk Lamat after all. And if not, well...you quietly take your leave.
G'raha Tia: A brazen plan, perhaps, but one that befits a veteran adventurer, you must agree!


Yea.....

[CidHeiral]

I am aware that there are still ppl who will disagree with me on the 2 min meta, they will say that its boring, makes jobs samey, generic etc. but if you think about it, we all just wanna get the content done and there are many ppl who work jobs or have a family IRL, and they want to just get home and log in without having the stress to actually think about what they are playing and how they will have to execute their specific rotation.

This has to be bait.

[ShadowyZero]

we need a villain who actually wins in the conclusion of the story like even if we defeat them an they die their plan still succeeds an it has lasting effect upon us and the world. and more importantly we need to have a reason to hate the villain they need to do things which make us resent them and also it should be a villain who trys to convince us their actions are justified and necessary and that our path is false or the wrong way to go etc.
the best told villains are ones who are irredeemable not ones who kill for the thrill of it and not ones who do it cause of a traumatized past while such characters can be interesting narratively characters that really make your blood boil or sit on the edge of your seat cause you're terrified of which awful thing they'll do next are what really sells that "Bad guy" vibe.
they way the portrayed that Vallens Van Varro guy in the Wyrlet content was perfect evil in that regard he was absolutely despicable in everything he did or said we need more evil like this but in the main story this time around

[Hallarem]

Fair enough. Personally, I found nothing about those zones or the MSQ exciting.
City of Gold was actually probably the only part that was a highlight, granted. The travel into Mamook and the literal travel to the Gold City. It's such a pity the actual MSQ part was so rubbish...

Ketenramm had no meaning to me. He might have been a historical figure in the story but, really, was a nobody to me. When was Ketenramm first even mentioned, in MSQ?

Personally, I hated Shaaloani. Absolutely boring to me, with it's western setting and overall MSQ plot. The whole western vibe seemed like such a strange thing. Just because there is some South/Central America themes, some Native American - well, better have Cowboys and Indians. Maybe there are other places, in FFXIV like that, and I just haven't noticed them. But that zone, in particular, just felt like lazy design.


But Lyse wasn't a overpowering figure, present in practically all quests, requiring you to speak to her and accompany her throughout the MSQ, from start to finish. It is not really a similar comparison to their presence within the MSQ.

Worst part is that the whole Ceruleum / progress vs the natives plotline belonged to the Whalaqee, one of the only things we knew about the New World before we entered. Whalaqee were reduced to a crafting sidequest in this expansion, and we didn't get to see their ceruleum rich home turf. And what was the reason? A 100% because they were too scared to tackle a natives vs progress storyline, stealing natural resources from a tribes holy land. Because people on twitter would have started to screech. Look at how they are already doing it because of armor someone is wearing (The conquistador saga). Instead we got soft cowboys who shoot soft rubber bullets to solve their disagreements, and chill natives whose problems with traintracks are solved with 5 minute trainwhistle tech. The MSQ has become soft, it used to tell nuanced stories from multiple angles, now we get this.
If you don't want to tell "sad stories" anymore, like Yoshi P said after 16, then pass the baton to someone else, because you can't earn happiness in stories without setback. You can't respect the intelligence of your audience if you tell soft non-stakes stories with horrible pacing.

[Jeeqbit]

Fair enough. Personally, I found nothing about those zones or the MSQ exciting.

I do all the sidequests too, so I got some extra context on the giants outside of the MSQ as well. But there was a lot that was part of it as well. I fought Valigarmanda with Duty Support and it likely takes away from it if you don't do it with the characters present.

Ketenramm had no meaning to me. He might have been a historical figure in the story but, really, was a nobody to me. When was Ketenramm first even mentioned, in MSQ?

I forget where specifically but I remember it was mentioned in the lore over time as him being the person who found the new world and brought items home, but any quest or lore piece about him just implied how he must have perished by now. So I was really happy, that just for once, something in this game was present-tense. To me it was like seeing things about the allagans and then the twist is they are still around actually.

Maybe there are other places, in FFXIV like that, and I just haven't noticed them.

There are. Ishgard is a stereotype of the UK. Kugane is a stereotype of Japan and its apparent "ninjas and samurai". They absolutely take every opportunity to add the common tourist destinations to the game that are popular purely due to stereotypes, and their own country isn't immune to that as Kugane proved.

But Lyse wasn't a overpowering figure, present in practically all quests, requiring you to speak to her and accompany her throughout the MSQ, from start to finish. It is not really a similar comparison to their presence within the MSQ.

Right so I think what most people must be drawing comparions to is the other aspects which I mentioned.

[Rizlee]

This has to be bait.

the goal with my post is I want the devs to know that I want them to keep the 2 min meta and job rotations the way it currently is lol

[Mawlzy]

Worst part is that the whole Ceruleum / progress vs the natives plotline belonged to the Whalaqee, one of the only things we knew about the New World before we entered. Whalaqee were reduced to a crafting sidequest in this expansion, and we didn't get to see their ceruleum rich home turf. And what was the reason? A 100% because they were too scared to tackle a natives vs progress storyline, stealing natural resources from a tribes holy land. Because people on twitter would have started to screech. Look at how they are already doing it because of armor someone is wearing (The conquistador saga). Instead we got soft cowboys who shoot soft rubber bullets to solve their disagreements, and chill natives whose problems with traintracks are solved with 5 minute trainwhistle tech. The MSQ has become soft, it used to tell nuanced stories from multiple angles, now we get this.
If you don't want to tell "sad stories" anymore, like Yoshi P said after 16, then pass the baton to someone else, because you can't earn happiness in stories without setback. You can't respect the intelligence of your audience if you tell soft non-stakes stories with horrible pacing.

Having done the Blue Mage questline I was expecting the tensions introduced there to appear in DT. It really did feel like cowardice by the writers that they were completely ignored. It also added to the sense of dislocation mentioned in other threads that the MSQ barely acknowledged its own lore.

I guess part of the point of DT was to create a clean break with the previous arc, but in that case the writers need to add future mystery and a compelling reason to care about what happens next.

The fact the Arcadion series is mentioned by many as a story highlight is pretty telling when it was a weak knock-off of WWE.

[BigCheez]

I still can't figure out why people think Lyse was a bad character while in the same sentence say Wuk Lamat isn't.

Lyse didn't have cat ears.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Wuk Lamat is not a bad character... potential wise. The problem are mostly how she's being utilized throughout the story & how her presence is warping the rest of the story to accommodate a predetermined outcome that the writer wants us to witness without even trying to support that outcome with a believable progression. If they make any attempt at all to do that, it's either heavily contrived or nonexistent.

• Do you expect people to believe a sheltered princess who had lived her entire life in her own city to... somehow not know one of her own people's standard way to greet another?
• Why does an artisan who just arrived in Tural at the same date as WoL knows more about the potsworn than this princess?
• She admits having good amount of flaws but these are rarely explored. If any, they're irrelevant to the story and her own development. Speaking of flaws... height fear is one of them but then there's that one 6.58 where she rode aetherial rope unbothered at Isle of Haam... yeah... one from many inconsistencies.
• Why are we not given an explanation the reason behind the Vanu forgetting their own 'magicked boat' despite there's a "plot device"-the character who conveniently walks in and says "People here just forgot and I don't even bother to tell them lmao also Third Promise you are educated if you know about this boat woooot!!"
• Her character progression starts at 6.58 and never leave that spot ever since then. Going from "I must protect papa's peace." to "I must protect papa's peace!!!!" is ain't it.
• On top of all that's been mentioned so far, the quest designer also forces us to interact with her way waaaaayyy too many times. Tone it down, sheesh. We get it, you like papa's peace lol. No need to wake me up at the butt crack of dawn to tell me what you said before boarding the boat to Tural lel...

Could probably fill an entire essay but nevertheless, a character that's 10km wide but 1cm deep isn't going to be well received no matter how you slice it - especially when good amount of us had been exposed to ARR-ShB writing standards.

EDIT: I do have to add that these inconsistencies and contrived development isn't only exhibited on Wuk Lamat specifically. There are other examples like how there's an attempt to sell Koana to players as the claimant who does not respect the culture, and yet the story didn't do any justice in presenting this element. We were mostly just being told rather than shown. In the same vein, there are also times when we're told (i.e. Erenville telling us Koana isn't as bad as people who thought of him as disrespecting their culture - they even praised Koana for bringing Dirigibles and the Aetheryte!) and even being shown the otherwise (i.e. asking if the submit of Worqor Zormor holds a special meaning to the Yok Huy). So which is it, now? lol. If that's not off putting enough, fast forward to "I just want to make people smile" lv85 MSQ CS. Really :/? That's a lot of potential to flesh out a character and they just skipped all of that?