Forked Tower premade patch coming before 7.3

[RiotSiren]

Sensible position. I think many of us are just fuming at the "lack of resources" explanation of why there was no normal mode, when as you note, the amount of work (if committed to early) would be less than 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X.

Ah for sure, thats completely valid. Though I'll be honest I actually appreciate the transparency, like it or not CBU3 is subject to cooperate politics and gets the budget they get. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he specifically mentioned it to put pressure on those who designate the budget.

Though your statement about " 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X. " is loaded as all hell though and honestly very incorrect. I'll be honest, I misspoke, as it several fights that all need to keep the phantom jobs in mind. It would be more equivalent to designing another extra 24 man raid in development time, of which we will have 4 (5 if they do another one in OC). Either way though, I still stand by my point, that expecting a fully developed 48 man normal raid (that needs to take into account phantom jobs. current and future) before the content becomes outdated is unrealistic

[Mawlzy]

Ah for sure, thats completely valid. Though I'll be honest I actually appreciate the transparency, like it or not CBU3 is subject to cooperate politics and gets the budget they get. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he specifically mentioned it to put pressure on those who designate the budget.

Though your statement about " 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X. " is loaded as all hell though and honestly very incorrect. I'll be honest, I misspoke, as it several fights that all need to keep the phantom jobs in mind. It would be more equivalent to designing another extra 24 man raid in development time, of which we will have 4 (5 if they do another one in OC). Either way though, I still stand by my point, that expecting a fully developed 48 man normal raid (that needs to take into account phantom jobs. current and future) before the content becomes outdated is unrealistic

Then perhaps we can settle on the common ground that the omission of a normal mode FT was a mistake, and that it isn't surprising that those who were looking forward to it are miffed.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not defending them, I'm saying it wouldn't realistically be worth it or viable in a quick enough time frame. Developing a properly balanced, fun, and polished normal mode for players is a far bigger task then people seem to think it is. Forked tower was likely being worked on and balanced before DT even came out, for sure the assets existing would speed up the process, but you can't really rush things like play-testing, and the iteration it requires, unless you want extremely unpolished content, which I don't think you do. I agree this should have never been like this in the first place.

It would be worth it for the part of the player base that feels like they’ve left out entirely… and I wouldn’t mind waiting until the next zone comes out. I’m not expecting it to be as easy a fix as what they’re doing tonight. But it should happen. There are only two zones for OC. Forked Tower Blood and Magic are a matching set here. Even if they make a Normal for the next zone, and honestly I’m not getting my hopes up at this point, it’s going to be lopsided if this one doesn’t get one.

As it is now, the scheduling alone will keep me from doing it for quite a while, let alone the prospect of having to do so multiple times to get a clear. And honestly having to prog it and not just having it be a still challenging but less punishing experience is going to suck most of the fun out it for me anyway. If the next zone gets Normal, great, but then what about those who didn’t manage to get the first one done? Maybe some will be fine doing things out of order or just skipping the first Tower altogether, but for most I’d wager it kills their motivation to go through the content altogether.

[brinn12]

Occult Crescent premade patch coming before 7.3*

It's still a band-aid fix. Hopefully the Forked Tower premade comes in 7.3. And of course it doesn't compromise the patch, when SE revealed most of 7.3's content after the Forked Tower fiasco.

[Khryseis_Astra]

Either way though, I still stand by my point, that expecting a fully developed 48 man normal raid (that needs to take into account phantom jobs. current and future) before the content becomes outdated is unrealistic

On this point in particular: Define outdated. lol OC is the current field ops zone, but Eureka and Bozja still see engagement to this day. Eureka especially was packed before OC and Cosmic released, and Bozja continues to be popular just for its ability to level jobs.

But then look at the dungeon instances involved… Bozja’s have replay-ability. CLL, Dalriada, Del Reg Normal… They weren’t “easy” on release but became so over time as one got stronger in the zones and learned the best ways to utilize the lost actions, there were no rez restrictions or “single person makes mistake=game over” mechs, and were usually puggable in a single run unless things went catastrophically wrong. But even so, you could just try again later, and it was fun enough to do as many times as you needed to get coins, relic bits, etc., while offering DRS for those who wanted more of a challenge. BA on the other hand is the ancestor to the current FTB. How many times do most people run BA? Considering it also has the same entrance contrivances and inability to run without scheduling and organizing. I’d guess the overwhelming majority are “one and done” on that, other than those that enjoy either maximizing gear or hosting runs. This isn’t something you can just pop into the zone and get done. Which is why I still haven’t done BA, regardless of how much I loved Eureka in general.

So tldr, I’d argue that adding the Normal mode, more on par with the Bozja instances would actually extend the life of the content, and make it desirable to go back to long after it’s no longer new & shiny.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Again, if content is designed where it needs guides, callouts and you must be in discord to clear - it shouldn't exist. No content should be added or designed that is unable to be completed in-game with the system's in-game. Period.

So extremes shouldnt exist either? Because you got Guides etc too, and i say it again you dont need to be in discord anymore just opener you random partyfinder group and good is

[Volgia]

I wish it would be. I'm in some really great Discords who just wanna do the content and have been open and welcoming to literally anyone. 0 cliques, no exclusions. Just come in and do the content. But then I come here and its the freaking boogeyman with the same people denouncing anyone who makes a run that uses it like we're all scum for wanting to team up and do some fun content. It's fun content man even though its implementation is horrendous. I can't see myself forgiving the team for creating this unnecessary rift between people who are, in the end, just looking to have some god damn fun be it in game with no discord or with it.

I never had any problems with Discords on doing this kind of content. As like.. .you don't even need to talk, just need to listen to someone giving call outs. It's not amazing but it's not the end of the world. You can enjoy 99% of the game without Discord anyways.

I understand Discord is used commonly over a wide range of games, but is it not unusual for a game to release content that, according to Bryson, basically requires Discord to clear?

It doesn't require it, it just happens to be the most efficient way to do it.

[Mawlzy]

It doesn't require it, it just happens to be the most efficient way to do it.

I guess it's part of MMO culture to worship at the min-max alter.

[Volgia]

I guess it's part of MMO culture to worship at the min-max alter.

Well I'll give you a savage equivalent that kind of frustrates me but you learn to accept, in PF in the beginning of any tier, people are loose with the strats they make and some of them might be cool and others might be awkward, but when Hector puts up a video he consolidates PF into one single strat. His videos are just too efficient a way to learn a fight, so if you're doing it with Randos, he's your best bet to clear savage.

it isn't required to watch his videos to beat savage, a friend has a blind static he does every fight figuring them out, but if you're doing PF it almost feels like you're forced to watch his videos to clear.

[Mawlzy]

Well I'll give you a savage equivalent that kind of frustrates me but you learn to accept, in PF in the beginning of any tier, people are loose with the strats they make and some of them might be cool and others might be awkward, but when Hector puts up a video he consolidates PF into one single strat. His videos are just too efficient a way to learn a fight, so if you're doing it with Randos, he's your best bet to clear savage.

it isn't required to watch his videos to beat savage, a friend has a blind static he does every fight figuring them out, but if you're doing PF it almost feels like you're forced to watch his videos to clear.

Sure, if clearing is the only goal it makes perfect sense. Just not my cup of tea.

Sort of like Fashion Report. When I discovered the "answer" is posted on Reddit every week, I didn't bother unlocking it.

I'm probably just better suited to sandbox MMOs.