Please Share Updates on 8.0 Job Design

[ty_taurus]

This is probably because FFXIV cannot truly have job identity, the proof of that is what happened with Pictomancer.

It launched overtuned in terms of DPS, and the effects were immediately noticeable: DPS checks in Savage were getting trivialized. SE eventually responded with a potency nerf to bring it in line, and things settled to the "It still needs a nerf but ok for now" category.

Then FRU arrived, and it revealed just how powerful a "downtime-optimized" job could be in Ultimate content. Player outrage flared up once more.

So another adjustment comes in, this time the nerf stripping away the aspects that let it overperform in downtime-heavy content. Once again, the balance complaints stopped… and the usual "grr, homogenization" talk returned.

Unless every encounter is tightly controlled to suit every job equally, which is impossible, true identity will always create imbalance somewhere in current fight design.

The only real thing they can do is make jobs homogenized pre-8.0 (for older content), then have identity post-Dawntrail, where encounters are designed around each job's uniqueness.

It's a poor implementation to have your job play one way pre-8.0 and another way post 8.0 but what else can they truly do ?

“Can’t” is a really strong word to use especially given the example you’re citing. On the topic of Pictomancer’s identity… To my knowledge the issue is that the combat design team failed to perform one of the most basic steps in launching adjustments, which is quality control. It seems that there was no math done or basic numbers testing to preserve the integrity of the rotation which can happen to any job if the pushed changes are sloppy. If Samurai needed a nerf, and they reduced the potency of Higanbana such that the combined total potency was lower than Midare’s, that would impact the integrity of Samurai’s rotation, and that’s what essentially happened with Picto’s painting, to my knowledge. If they had taken the time to quality check their pushes, there would be no issue. And that kind of proves to me that my previous assumption is correct. They are cutting corners with job design at every step, both with identity and with balance. Job quality seems to be a very low priority to CBU3.

Additionally, I don’t think Pictomancer having a ln advantage in Ultimates is a bad thing. The degree of Picto’s power was, but some jobs having downtime advantages is really not an issue. It’s okay for some jobs to thrive better in certain environments as long as all jobs get a chance to shine somewhere and are viable otherwise. That makes the job system more interesting. Identity should not be sacrificed for balance, because what good is balance if the game isn’t enjoyable?

[NaoSen]

“Can’t” is a really strong word to use especially given the example you’re citing. On the topic of Pictomancer’s identity… To my knowledge the issue is that the combat design team failed to perform one of the most basic steps in launching adjustments, which is quality control. It seems that there was no math done or basic numbers testing to preserve the integrity of the rotation which can happen to any job if the pushed changes are sloppy. If Samurai needed a nerf, and they reduced the potency of Higanbana such that the combined total potency was lower than Midare’s, that would impact the integrity of Samurai’s rotation, and that’s what essentially happened with Picto’s painting, to my knowledge. If they had taken the time to quality check their pushes, there would be no issue. And that kind of proves to me that my previous assumption is correct. They are cutting corners with job design at every step, both with identity and with balance. Job quality seems to be a very low priority to CBU3.

Additionally, I don’t think Pictomancer having a ln advantage in Ultimates is a bad thing. The degree of Picto’s power was, but some jobs having downtime advantages is really not an issue. It’s okay for some jobs to thrive better in certain environments as long as all jobs get a chance to shine somewhere and are viable otherwise. That makes the job system more interesting. Identity should not be sacrificed for balance, because what good is balance if the game isn’t enjoyable?

Pictomancer was the closest thing to a "Specialist Job" so to say in recent memory and a good example for why damage numbers need to line up to keep the masses happy.

There were many YouTube videos, reddit posts, forum post, discord discussions where people didn't even know that the vastly higher damage graph only applied to downtime fights. People upset about a job doing so much damage who didn't even engage in the content that it was doing the damage in or have the ability to understand where it applied. The part about it not being top damage in savage didn't even matter, just that ultimate number.

Then of course you had PF's where the job got locked in for FRU due to how good it was so actually causing a lockout for caster role entirely for those who don't play the job.

Regarding the nerf I know the rotation could have been maintained with a smarter nerf, I remember being in the balance discord where they mathed out a different nerf balance to maintain the rotation it currently had being optimal before maintenance even ended. I ended up dropping the job because it didn't feel the same to me anymore and settled on monk.

To make a system where all the jobs have an identity while not causing player outrage that is still compatible with the last 14 years or more's content really doesn't seem realistic, at least not with the designers we currently have.