Dear SE: Please listen to actual players, not just content creators

[Kohashi]

Except that the challenge of modern FFXIV PvE combat design is more akin to memorizing the first ten-thousand digits of Pi and being able to recite them back without fail, on demand, repeatedly.

It's a feat, to be sure, but relatively few find it fun and rewarding to pull it off themselves.

So???....

Why do you even care what I do for fun? You sound bitter and salty. You remind me of that meme with "you are not allowed to have fun because I'm not having fun." Very sad, anyway.......... what were we talking about?

[Kohashi]

I'm suggesting the way you interact with the game is far from universal.

When real life has thrown up challenges; the death of friends, painful failed relationships, professional sacrifices and struggles, nearly dying twice... Negotiating the so-called challenge in a video game is not particularly important to me. I want to be entertained, not challenged.

If overcoming self-imposed problems in a video game is something that appeals to you, that's terrific.

So??????? Go to Limsa and have fun..
I'm sure you can find plenty of cat boys or girls, whatever swings your boat as we ain't shaming here or maybe even both at the same time, ready to give you a good time....WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mawlzy]

So??????? Go to Limsa and have fun..
I'm sure you can find plenty of cat boys or girls, whatever swings your boat as we ain't shaming here or maybe even both at the same time, ready to give you a good time....WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I prefer such recreational activities with real people.

[bearpuppyki]

I mean, what would you call the pretty large subset of the playerbase who is bored in roulettes and normal content, enjoys Extreme and easier Savage floors but doesn't want to, or can't, dedicate large amounts of time and energy to progression raiding?

Honestly, casuals

[0blivion]

Honestly, casuals

I think the technical term is midcore. But I only use that on the forum. To my friends, I call myself casual because that's what I am: I clear the first two Savage floors and lose interest unless the last boss is cute.

[Asari5]

depends if you look at time investement or difficulty.
people tend to mix up these two things (or at least dont clarify what they mean) so it leads to people talking about two different things. which of course means any discussion about it will be meaningless xD

[Valence]

Wow, for the first time, you get it, you absolutely get it, almost. You were so close...

It's about the challenge, the struggle, the journey, overcoming a hurdle, an impasse, a learning opportunity, about being better at the end of it and being rewarded for it.

Like in life, you struggle, you fail, once, twice, a lot of times, but if you don't give up in the end, you get it. You persevere, and you never expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter because you exist.

And according to you, that's the only model that breeds shelf life and replayability?

[bearpuppyki]

I think the technical term is midcore. But I only use that on the forum. To my friends, I call myself casual because that's what I am: I clear the first two Savage floors and lose interest unless the last boss is cute.

You don’t have to play well, but midcore players should at least engage with all major content, including ultimate. You don’t need to have cleared the ultimate yet, but you should intend to try it, which at minimum means clearing the current fourth floor.
This isn’t just about ff14 either, it applies to pretty much any game. If you have no interest in the core challenges, then it’s hard to say you’re any kind of ‘core’ player at all.

[Kohashi]

depends if you look at time investement or difficulty.
people tend to mix up these two things (or at least dont clarify what they mean) so it leads to people talking about two different things. which of course means any discussion about it will be meaningless xD

To be fair, complexity is completely irrelevant and hard to quantify since it's based on everyone's ability to adapt and learn/apply knowledge in the long run.
Anyone can clear it if they invest enough time. The only real, stable, quantifiable measurement is time.

If you sit in Limsa/ logged in the game/posting in the forums for 10 hrs/ day(random example), you are hardcore no matter what you do. The difference is how you are using the time.

And according to you, that's the only model that breeds shelf life and replayability?

And what kind of content is that? One that has a good drop rate, respectful of your time, but is still grindy enough to keep you busy in between?
Also, you don't have to invest time, nor spend hours figuring it out, or is it punishing because we can't have people memorizing patterns, that's boring stuff.
Did we ever have such content at any point in time? Is it even feasible?

[Derio]

The problem is they went backwards. 7.0 should have been the job changes, not the content changes. If anything the content changes show how stale the jobs have been since shadowbringers and endwalker.