Dear SE: Please listen to actual players, not just content creators

[Valence]

I am curious how you would do it, considering the current gameplay and job design.

Is your idea of something that you can have hours being sunk in, just something that walls you for hours until you learn the tune?

[Mawlzy]

I would say with non-PvE content...

The problem is that it is too accessible, and you end up being done with it far far too quickly for it to actually feel like any substance, meaning or accomplishment at all.

Maybe it's a curse of knowledge type thing... But I look at non-PvE content and just go... "Really?"...

I often ask myself the question on who they are actually designing it for, really... Because, it's like they are designing much of the non-PvE side around people that don't actually want to engage with it.

Or the issue is that, other than PvP, it's not very good.

But when it comes to accessibility, the three novel bits of content in 7.X illustrate why those who don't focus on PvE are so pissed off.

Chaotic Alliance Raid. That sounds cool! Revisiting that mean ol' Cloud of Darkness. Mebbe there'll be a new twist on getting swallowed by Cerberus! At least we'll see more mechanics from the different bosses! Ah no. It's not an alliance raid at all. It's a single boss fight. And somehow the mysterious hand of the gods swept down (again) and made it way more difficult that the devs wanted it, hahaha, oh well.

Occult Crescent. Awesome! Overworld content! Except the primary reason to grind the overworld is to get into Forked Tower, which like CAR has punishing body checks and requires a level of organization comparable to storming the beaches of Normandy.

Cosmic Exploration. Okay, this is the stuff for non-PvEers! A cooperative process involving crafting and gathering and special fun events! Wait, what? Levequests!? Running around for 40 minutes clicking on things!? And where's the cooperation? I'm just gathering and crafting stuff on my own. Also, what exactly are we doing here, on the least attractive landscape possibly ever? We're building a massive base to house... a tiny spaceship. Helping those irritating, buck-toothed rodents who built Bestways Burrow and enough living space to house the entire population of the planet, but apparently they can't handle a few rocks and sponges that pop up inexplicably every 20 minutes? Oh, and by the way, the moon is a fucking spaceship, so why do we need all this infrastructure for a tin can 1/10000000 the size of the Ragnarok?

[Valence]

Oh, and by the way, the moon is a fucking spaceship, so why do we need all this infrastructure for a tin can 1/10000000 the size of the Ragnarok?

B-but what about the tides on Etheirys? Did you think of the tides??

why aren't we using the Ragnarok anyway Oh wait no, they wouldn't be able to explain why it still shows in Ultima Thule or Labyrinthos...

[Kaurhz]

Or the issue is that, other than PvP, it's not very good.

But when it comes to accessibility, the three novel bits of content in 7.X illustrate why those who don't focus on PvE are so pissed off.

Chaotic Alliance Raid. That sounds cool! Revisiting that mean ol' Cloud of Darkness. Mebbe there'll be a new twist on getting swallowed by Cerberus! At least we'll see more mechanics from the different bosses! Ah no. It's not an alliance raid at all. It's a single boss fight. And somehow the mysterious hand of the gods swept down (again) and made it way more difficult that the devs wanted it, hahaha, oh well.

Occult Crescent. Awesome! Overworld content! Except the primary reason to grind the overworld is to get into Forked Tower, which like CAR has punishing body checks and requires a level of organization comparable to storming the beaches of Normandy.

Cosmic Exploration. Okay, this is the stuff for non-PvEers! A cooperative process involving crafting and gathering and special fun events! Wait, what? Levequests!? Running around for 40 minutes clicking on things!? And where's the cooperation? I'm just gathering and crafting stuff on my own. Also, what exactly are we doing here, on the least attractive landscape possibly ever? We're building a massive base to house... a tiny spaceship. Helping those irritating, buck-toothed rodents who built Bestways Burrow and enough living space to house the entire population of the planet, but apparently they can't handle a few rocks and sponges that pop up inexplicably every 20 minutes? Oh, and by the way, the moon is a fucking spaceship, so why do we need all this infrastructure for a tin can 1/10000000 the size of the Ragnarok?

I mean I don't disagree, but it's not really a single issue, but I do strongly think much of it does stem from being too accessible where the substance of it is actually lost for anyone that wants to actually play the game, and it just feels like they design these systems for people that actually don't want to play or invest in it... Hence why you have systems that are:
a) A glorified levequest.
b) Glorified Collectables.
c) Outright abandoned and gutted in favor of catering to people that actually don't want to engage with them.

Non-PvE content has actually been a gigantic part of my gameplay for the last decade, and I've just seen these systems have any depth and meaning stripped out of them, in favor of trying to appeal to people that don't actually want to engage with these systems.. Like it's great and all having things like Cosmic Exploration or Ishgard Restoration (or Expert Recipes), but it's built on top of an utterly gutted out crafting system. Simplicity is fine (Which is where Stormblood was), but when you oversimplify, then there's only so fun a system can be tbh.

[Mawlzy]

B-but what about the tides on Etheirys? Did you think of the tides??

why aren't we using the Ragnarok anyway Oh wait no, they wouldn't be able to explain why it still shows in Ultima Thule or Labyrinthos...

Valence, that is hysterical. I am a retired theoretical astrophysicist and it was the first thing I worried about when the mobile moon first cropped up. (And don't get me started on Dalamud.)

But given the game breaks every other planetary reality, such as day-night cycles dependent on latitude/longitude, seasons, and the shadow and atmospheric incompatibilities on the moon, I decided the answer probably had something to do with aether.

[Themarvin]

Don't forget about the deliberate regression in some cases. A very easy example is how they acknowledged that the entry system for BA was bad, implemented a simple queue system for its successor and added support for 48-man premades to PF, then decided that the next one should use a worse version of the BA system because they didn't like that people were using the party finder and queue to form a party and queue. They aren't even willing to fully go back to the Delubrum model with the change in 7.3.

They should not allow for PF, however I would be able the queue in system as we get with Duty finder alike content, gives way more pools of random players overall and further more locks out the discord/must have done this hype and if we don't get it done 10 minutes faster than the average you will be kicked attitude

If you get my drift... this game need much more to be able to as an actual community rather than using 3rd part solutions outside of the game.

[Kohashi]

Is your idea of something that you can have hours being sunk in, just something that walls you for hours until you learn the tune?

Wow, for the first time, you get it, you absolutely get it, almost. You were so close...

It's about the challenge, the struggle, the journey, overcoming a hurdle, an impasse, a learning opportunity, about being better at the end of it and being rewarded for it.

Like in life, you struggle, you fail, once, twice, a lot of times, but if you don't give up in the end, you get it. You persevere, and you never expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter because you exist.

[Mawlzy]

Wow, for the first time, you get it, you absolutely get it, almost. You were so close...

It's about the challenge, the struggle, the journey, overcoming a hurdle, an impasse, a learning opportunity, about being better at the end of it and being rewarded for it.

Like in life, you struggle, you fail, once, twice, a lot of times, but if you don't give up in the end, you get it. You persevere, and you never expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter because you exist.

Classic example of being so immersed in a game, the fact that it is not the same as real life gets completely overlooked.

[Kohashi]

Classic example of being so immersed in a game, the fact that it is not the same as real life gets completely overlooked.

Is there a problem with my analogy and the reason why I do the content that I do? Is the game all Fake? Are you not real? Are you a pixel with 0 relevance? A robot with 0 thought process, typing random words from Deep Space? What am I missing? Apart from that, we probably exist in the middle of a black hole.. xD

[AmiableApkallu]

Wow, for the first time, you get it, you absolutely get it, almost. You were so close...

It's about the challenge, the struggle, the journey, overcoming a hurdle, an impasse, a learning opportunity, about being better at the end of it and being rewarded for it.

Like in life, you struggle, you fail, once, twice, a lot of times, but if you don't give up in the end, you get it. You persevere, and you never expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter because you exist.

Except that the challenge of modern FFXIV PvE combat design is more akin to memorizing the first ten-thousand digits of Pi and being able to recite them back without fail, on demand, repeatedly.

It's a feat, to be sure, but relatively few find it fun and rewarding to pull it off themselves.