Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Astronis]

A 'touch-up' that involves this substantial of a polygon upscale, texture improvement and lightning changes IS a full graphics update, regardless of whether it was started from scratch or not. Calling them the same models is still dishonest, and I'm still skeptical that they are.

I agree with you, it's a full graphic update. I do not believe it's dishonest to say they are the same models with touch ups, because they are clearly the same models with some upgrade work done on them rather than what SE did, which is attempt to recreate the original geometry of the various faces from one single base mesh. That's why I posted about it--I think calling Lightspeed's versions "recreations" is misleading. They look so much like the original models because they ARE the original models with a spit-shine and nice polish on them.

I have been here since day one as well. The people who are praising the mobile graphics and the ones complaining about the Dawntrail update are the same people.

So far, only a handful of the same people. Not all of them. This is a long thread. There has been a lot of nitpicking over extremely minor details, up to and including people listing the RGB values of colors being a smidge different. So yeah, I think those people would still nitpick.

I think faiarrow has it bang on--a mix between the two updates would have been the best possible outcome. There are some things in the DT update that are stellar and things the mobile devs did better. Some of what was lost is almost certainly because SE felt it necessary to standardize the base mesh. They made that choice, I am going to assume for a reason other than for the lulz, and I think SE did a very good (albeit not perfect) job given that constraint. Obviously you (and others) disagree.

[Doopliss]

Coming into this thread under the guise of being reasonable when the majority of people still currently here who do want their characters restored, do, in fact, like the mobile graphic update, is so extremely disingenuous. Yeah, it's a long thread, but the arbitrarily "more nitpicky" ones aren't posting right now, so we can only "telepathically assume" how they feel, too, I guess.

I've been trying to take Astronis's posts in good faith for a long time, but it's just extremely difficult to when you're constantly strawmaning complaints to make yours look more reasonable. Everyone else's desire for change is a "nitpick" but your desire to keep everything exactly the same as it was in the 7.0 launch because of the small differences you would be unhappy to see adjusted, are not.

There is no reasonableness without understanding your own preference is also a bias. And I'm saying this as somebody who is pretty damn happy with the Dawntrail changes to my Elezen's face at least, and can live with some of the differences made that change the impression in a way I don't particularly like.

To get new normal maps and polygon count in the way the mobile version did, the faces had to be remade considerably. It was more than likely to the same extent SE had to go through for their own new shared mesh, if you remember the infamous "Lalafell Chin Polygon" showcasing. SE supposedly struggled to smooth out polygons and adjust facemapping to this extent when purely using the old meshes. Then, ultimately, they went with the shared meshes with all but Hrothgar to apparently make the inclusion of new faces and expressions an easier task in the future. Whether that ends up being worth it or not...I guess we'll see in several years, considering the pace they move at and the amount of new glitches we get every patch.

But, yes, they were handed the geometry as reference. They said as much. But they don't actually get to copy and paste it and merely make it smoother, otherwise the mobile version would be far more than just ARR (and male Duskwights wouldn't have had lost their clan features for a second time).

Regardless, things being "two shades darker" and features being "a few centimeters off" matter a lot (rather unfortunately) even in real life. Real faces change significantly with certain differences that are, yeah, technically small. If they didn't the makeup industry (and other even more unfortunate options) wouldn't have millions of people by the throat.

Sorry for the wall of text. I'm probably going to go back to seldomly posting in this thread. And like, obviously, keep posting that you're happy with parts of the GU. That's important too. But please stop arbitrarily deciding certain changes matter less than others. The random cat girl who's bad at articulating her feelings won't hurt you.

Also, can somebody post a female Highlander with Face 2, Eye Shape 3, preferably without bangs in front of the face and no makeup? I've a friend who's too shy to share their character but wants to see the (hopefully) old eye shape in updated graphics. Thank you very much.

[Hatsuoki]

I don't have the energy to reply to everything but here is your friend's request. I'm not sure if the part numbers all correlate so if they want to see a different setting, just let me know.

[Astronis]

Coming into this thread under the guise of being reasonable when the majority of people still currently here who do want their characters restored, do, in fact, like the mobile graphic update, is so extremely disingenuous. Yeah, it's a long thread, but the arbitrarily "more nitpicky" ones aren't posting right now, so we can only "telepathically assume" how they feel, too, I guess.

I'll take that as a reasonable suggestion that I could have said what I said better. Which is true. I should have kept that thought to myself.

[faiarrow]

I mean I'd argue I'm one of the more nitpicky ones (I've been upset about femroe eyes since, check notes, October 2023,) but a majority of my feedback has been Japanese-side because it's allowed me to be much more direct in a field they definitely are observing given the amount of posts that get culled by mods there you don't see it. I would've been enjoying an anniversary this upcoming moonfire with Sko being around since 2015 this year but instead I'm still fighting hard to actually have my character back.

80-90% of the way as things are since 7.2 is just awful.

Mobile IS updated; it uses unreal engine for a start, it's not just a texture glow up there are new polys on the models and even corrected normal maps over what we had in 2.0-6.5 models. They have some aspects of the DT GFX update in their stylings—because the project is supervised and approved by CS3/SQEX—but for the most part they stuck to their Chinese and Japanese page only PR confirmation that character graphic accuracy was going to be a key focus bringing the game to that platform. Something they deliberately omitted from the English page about the game.

Seeing my character actually exist still in a mobile game in what I'd argue is a 99% capacity vs a 90%, 1 year after Benchmark and DT release, and OVER a year since I first pointed out the eye issue, is frustrating as hell.

[Khryseis_Astra]

Absolutely, here she is...

Thanks so much! Damn I miss those lips! lol

Not to mention that the shirt is quite literally a brand-new asset.

That’s probably the first disturbing thing I’ve seen out of mobile: why in the world would they add that collar to the female version?! I have an aversion to high collars/necklines in general!

But overall, really sad that the mobile version has more of a faithful recreation of our characters than the main game.

[Doopliss]

I don't have the energy to reply to everything but here is your friend's request. I'm not sure if the part numbers all correlate so if they want to see a different setting, just let me know.

Ohhh, interestingly it doesn't look like the options align by number 1-1 to the mainline version. That looks like the more rounded option (I'd guess Eye Option #4 in the mainline version of the game), so I should have specified that I meant the most upturned eye option.

It currently looks like this in Dawntrail (I just used the default options and removed makeup here, too):

So whichever eye option has the outer corners facing most upwards would be the match (unless that is how the eyes now look in the mobile version, which would be even more surprising than Dawntrail's version).

Thank you very much regardless, and I don't blame you if you're too tired for another screenshot as well. I appreciate the time everyone's taken out of their day to show screenshots in the first place.

That’s probably the first disturbing thing I’ve seen out of mobile: why in the world would they add that collar to the female version?! I have an aversion to high collars/necklines in general!

It actually looks like Hyuran women now have dark brown shorts that extend pretty noticeably under their race-specific miniskirt in some of the screenshots, too. While I'm not really a fan of that change, I understand why they did it. ...Covering up the neck, though, is...interesting. Don't want to scandalize the vampires?

Or, more realistically, it might have been to better balance the silhouette with the addition of shorts...

[Hatsuoki]

No worries. It looks like it might be option 3 in the mobile version. Does this look closer?

[Doopliss]

No worries. It looks like it might be option 3 in the mobile version. Does this look closer?

Yes, that looks perfect and immediately familiar! Thank you!

Aw, it does make me so sad, though... Even I miss the rounded, more alert look of this eye shape. It gave the sharpness of the eye angle a combination of cuteness that no other face really offers. The DT one is definitely a far more "sultry" look, which isn't inherently bad...but not at all what the original vibe was.

[Liamont]

Recreating my character's husband in the CC and he doesn't have the weird caveman super muscle brow that DT gave us (Urianger has this problem too because they both use the same base face; half of it is the normal map is really weird on the new morph.) The mouths being like the ARR-EW models makes the expressions a lot better.

-snip-

Oh, thank you! The expressions look better...man, I kind of hope that if there's more and more people doing comparisons between the mobile game and the actual game we have now, then SE will finally do something about addressing all the problems we've had with the new faces for a year now.