Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Sairaag]

Ikr? Ok now I really want to see my old Highlander… if anyone is bored and/or has time! lol

Highlander female, shortest height, muscle 0, bust 90, face 2, skin palest, hair base 255.220.151, highlights 140.172.151, jaw 4, eyes 6 (35.67.73), eyebrows 1, nose 5, mouth 4, lip color 139.55.46, facial features 1 & 2 (brow and eyeshadow)

Absolutely, here she is...

[noumen0nn]

That's why. These aren't recreations in any manner at all. They literally are the same face models, probably with minor touch-ups.

This is absolute misinformation, and you don't even need to do any research to figure this out. I invite you to compare these two pictures: Look at the sheer increase in polygon count, you can see it clear as day on the ears alone. Not to mention that the shirt is quite literally a brand-new asset.

I suspect people who disliked the angle of eyelashes in DT's new models would have had an issue with the differences that do exist, though--narrower looking noses, heavier jowls, that sort of thing.

Every single person in this thread has been praising the mobile graphics, despite the visual differences that DO exist compared to the pre-DT PC graphics. You are inventing strawmen and arguing in bad faith, and you know it.

[Astronis]

This is absolute misinformation, and you don't even need to do any research to figure this out. I invite you to compare these two pictures: Look at the sheer increase in polygon count, you can see it clear as day on the ears alone.

That's what I said, same model with minor touch ups. Which, as I recall, is what you wanted from SE all along, right? Do you really, honestly and truly believe that Lightspeed remade everything from scratch? That they were not handed textures, models, text, and whatever else they needed from SE along with the license to make a FFXIV mobile game?

Every single person in this thread has been praising the mobile graphics, despite the visual differences that DO exist compared to the pre-DT PC graphics. You are inventing strawmen and arguing in bad faith, and you know it.

I've been in this thread from the start and have seen people complain about furrows over noses that are two shades darker in DT than in EW, so please don't tell me the people who complained about that wouldn't complain about other furrows being two shades darker. Nevertheless, once again, I understand why people like these mobile versions. They look good. Without seeing them in person and in game, I'd probably have been happy with them if that's what SE came up with a year ago. But by all means keep that telepathy machine plugged in.

[magitekwitch]

Just out of curiosity, can someone show pics of how miqo'te tails look on mobile? Did they upgrade them with more volume like the hairstyles, or do them still look like that low res X shape?

[noumen0nn]

That's what I said, same model with minor touch ups. Which, as I recall, is what you wanted from SE all along, right? Do you really, honestly and truly believe that Lightspeed remade everything from scratch? That they were not handed textures, models, text, and whatever else they needed from SE along with the license to make a FFXIV mobile game?



I've been in this thread from the start and have seen people complain about furrows over noses that are two shades darker in DT than in EW, so please don't tell me the people who complained about that wouldn't complain about other furrows being two shades darker. Nevertheless, once again, I understand why people like these mobile versions. They look good. Without seeing them in person and in game, I'd probably have been happy with them if that's what SE came up with a year ago. But by all means keep that telepathy machine plugged in.

A 'touch-up' that involves this substantial of a polygon upscale, texture improvement and lightning changes IS a full graphics update, regardless of whether it was started from scratch or not. Calling them the same models is still dishonest, and I'm still skeptical that they are.

I have been here since day one as well. The people who are praising the mobile graphics and the ones complaining about the Dawntrail update are the same people. There were a lot of people nitpicking minor differences, yes, because not everyone has the same capabilities when it comes to describing and demonstrating visual changes between the old and new graphics. But the fact that the mobile graphics are this well-received, again, despite there being visible differences, is because the Dawntrail updates failed to preserve the overall visual style and impression of the faces, whereas the mobile version did not. If this was a necessary consequence of starting from scratch with a unified face mesh (Which is isn't, by the way, and a better-prepared team of artists given more time and resources could have done it with no issues), then they shouldn't have started from scratch in the first place. Putting aside the circumstances of their creation: We now have two versions of the game that are, in terms of graphical fidelity, improvements over the pre-DT PC/console version. One succeeded in making this update while preserving the look of the original characters, the other did not. That's all there is to it.

[Sairaag]

Just out of curiosity, can someone show pics of how miqo'te tails look on mobile? Did they upgrade them with more volume like the hairstyles, or do them still look like that low res X shape?

The X shape is still there. I made a gif with the fluffy tail:

[Astronis]

A 'touch-up' that involves this substantial of a polygon upscale, texture improvement and lightning changes IS a full graphics update, regardless of whether it was started from scratch or not. Calling them the same models is still dishonest, and I'm still skeptical that they are.

I agree with you, it's a full graphic update. I do not believe it's dishonest to say they are the same models with touch ups, because they are clearly the same models with some upgrade work done on them rather than what SE did, which is attempt to recreate the original geometry of the various faces from one single base mesh. That's why I posted about it--I think calling Lightspeed's versions "recreations" is misleading. They look so much like the original models because they ARE the original models with a spit-shine and nice polish on them.

I have been here since day one as well. The people who are praising the mobile graphics and the ones complaining about the Dawntrail update are the same people.

So far, only a handful of the same people. Not all of them. This is a long thread. There has been a lot of nitpicking over extremely minor details, up to and including people listing the RGB values of colors being a smidge different. So yeah, I think those people would still nitpick.

I think faiarrow has it bang on--a mix between the two updates would have been the best possible outcome. There are some things in the DT update that are stellar and things the mobile devs did better. Some of what was lost is almost certainly because SE felt it necessary to standardize the base mesh. They made that choice, I am going to assume for a reason other than for the lulz, and I think SE did a very good (albeit not perfect) job given that constraint. Obviously you (and others) disagree.

[Doopliss]

Coming into this thread under the guise of being reasonable when the majority of people still currently here who do want their characters restored, do, in fact, like the mobile graphic update, is so extremely disingenuous. Yeah, it's a long thread, but the arbitrarily "more nitpicky" ones aren't posting right now, so we can only "telepathically assume" how they feel, too, I guess.

I've been trying to take Astronis's posts in good faith for a long time, but it's just extremely difficult to when you're constantly strawmaning complaints to make yours look more reasonable. Everyone else's desire for change is a "nitpick" but your desire to keep everything exactly the same as it was in the 7.0 launch because of the small differences you would be unhappy to see adjusted, are not.

There is no reasonableness without understanding your own preference is also a bias. And I'm saying this as somebody who is pretty damn happy with the Dawntrail changes to my Elezen's face at least, and can live with some of the differences made that change the impression in a way I don't particularly like.

To get new normal maps and polygon count in the way the mobile version did, the faces had to be remade considerably. It was more than likely to the same extent SE had to go through for their own new shared mesh, if you remember the infamous "Lalafell Chin Polygon" showcasing. SE supposedly struggled to smooth out polygons and adjust facemapping to this extent when purely using the old meshes. Then, ultimately, they went with the shared meshes with all but Hrothgar to apparently make the inclusion of new faces and expressions an easier task in the future. Whether that ends up being worth it or not...I guess we'll see in several years, considering the pace they move at and the amount of new glitches we get every patch.

But, yes, they were handed the geometry as reference. They said as much. But they don't actually get to copy and paste it and merely make it smoother, otherwise the mobile version would be far more than just ARR (and male Duskwights wouldn't have had lost their clan features for a second time).

Regardless, things being "two shades darker" and features being "a few centimeters off" matter a lot (rather unfortunately) even in real life. Real faces change significantly with certain differences that are, yeah, technically small. If they didn't the makeup industry (and other even more unfortunate options) wouldn't have millions of people by the throat.

Sorry for the wall of text. I'm probably going to go back to seldomly posting in this thread. And like, obviously, keep posting that you're happy with parts of the GU. That's important too. But please stop arbitrarily deciding certain changes matter less than others. The random cat girl who's bad at articulating her feelings won't hurt you.

Also, can somebody post a female Highlander with Face 2, Eye Shape 3, preferably without bangs in front of the face and no makeup? I've a friend who's too shy to share their character but wants to see the (hopefully) old eye shape in updated graphics. Thank you very much.

[Hatsuoki]

I don't have the energy to reply to everything but here is your friend's request. I'm not sure if the part numbers all correlate so if they want to see a different setting, just let me know.

[Astronis]

Coming into this thread under the guise of being reasonable when the majority of people still currently here who do want their characters restored, do, in fact, like the mobile graphic update, is so extremely disingenuous. Yeah, it's a long thread, but the arbitrarily "more nitpicky" ones aren't posting right now, so we can only "telepathically assume" how they feel, too, I guess.

I'll take that as a reasonable suggestion that I could have said what I said better. Which is true. I should have kept that thought to myself.