@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[0blivion]

"top 1% elite people" spoken like someone who has never seen the breadth of player skill diversity in FT

[Altina_Orion]

"top 1% elite people" spoken like someone who has never seen the breadth of player skill diversity in FT

Yeah I've seen plenty of fairly casual players who don't run savage or ex do it and prog fine. As long as your are capable of joining a discord server you are capable of entering and giving it a try. I'm still frankly annoyed that it involves the level of coordination it does, especially if they are expecting 100 clears from players, but it truly isn't THAT difficult once you enter

[AmiableApkallu]

Crowd control can feel very frustrating when there is an overabundance of it, but that's absolutely not comparable to this boss at all. No stun in pvp lasts more than 2-3s, and you're free. You also have multiple tools to deal with it and nullify crowd control. You also have tactical agency whether or not you want to burn your tools to get rid of said cc if you consider that they're not immediately threatening.

I feel this comparison is extremely misinformed.

Stuns are not the only loss of agency. Binds, silences, knockbacks, draw-ins... these all exist. Each one might be only a couple seconds, but it adds up if the other team decides to focus them all at you. The cumulative effect is like a stream of bad luck with a Paralyze debuff in PvE: try to do a thing, zap, try again, zap, maybe this time, nope zap. And given the nature of PvP, there's probably something I was trying to react to or do every time I get zapped.

I find Strayborough to be far more chill by comparison. Sure, maybe I lose control, but it's not like I was really doing anything in the first place (lol, does my DPS rotation really count?).

[Mawlzy]

Stuns are not the only loss of agency. Binds, silences, knockbacks, draw-ins... these all exist. Each one might be only a couple seconds, but it adds up if the other team decides to focus them all at you. The cumulative effect is like a stream of bad luck with a Paralyze debuff in PvE: try to do a thing, zap, try again, zap, maybe this time, nope zap. And given the nature of PvP, there's probably something I was trying to react to or do every time I get zapped.

I find Strayborough to be far more chill by comparison. Sure, maybe I lose control, but it's not like I was really doing anything in the first place (lol, does my DPS rotation really count?).

Certainly not saying the current situation is perfect, but for the most part the jobs that are getting targeted with CC (tank/melee) are the ones that have the best resources to counter.

But to me the big difference is that vast variety of situations you find in PvP. Each fight is different and thus has repeatability. The only repeatability in PvE is trying again when you fail.

Also worth noting, given the ongoing dissatisfaction with healers in PvE, that healers in PvP are some of the most interesting and important jobs to play.

[Mawlzy]

"top 1% elite people" spoken like someone who has never seen the breadth of player skill diversity in FT

I'm glad you're supporting the desperate need for skill sliders.

[enthauptet]

You do realize you just compared what you call 'casual' against something SE named 'Savage.' The fact you cannot pick it up and complete it on *your* time and have to accommodate 3 others (edit: and 'marry' them through the whole process, no way to easily solo it, as said, more people have epic hero than Necromancer/Lone Hero/Queen titles) to complete it with *any* semblance of ease makes it not casual friendly, please don't compare what you want to call casual with content named "Savage."

Your post was about time investment (organizing, clearing and how reprog a big waste of time) making things not casual friendly and not "difficulty" of content itself so I framed my post in that context.

The Garleans very obviously do not want our help.

For sure but they can do whatever they want with the story.

[ChrysOCE]

The Garleans very obviously do not want our help.

Tbf, the Garleans could very easily be written to accept our help, in a small area of the overall nation. Say, in an extension of the area that we already proved our helpfulness.

[enthauptet]

Tbf, the Garleans could very easily be written to accept our help, in a small area of the overall nation. Say, in an extension of the area that we already proved our helpfulness.

There were more areas impacted by the final days as well. Granted, having a somewhat decent story tie-in or story at all doesn't really make grindfest content like the moon that much more interesting but it would make it at least somewhat interesting for a little bit lol. I wasn't big on the foundation content either so I think this content type is mostly just not for me.

[ChrysOCE]

There were more areas impacted by the final days as well. Granted, having a somewhat decent story tie-in or story at all doesn't really make grindfest content like the moon that much more interesting but it would make it at least somewhat interesting for a little bit lol. I wasn't big on the foundation content either so I think this content type is mostly just not for me.

i definitely would have preferred Garlean to the moon. but i also wanted to see the actual civil war and not just hear about it afterwards or see a couple minutes of cs.

[Uzephi]

Your post was about time investment (organizing, clearing and how reprog a big waste of time) making things not casual friendly and not "difficulty" of content itself so I framed my post in that context.


For sure but they can do whatever they want with the story.

It's still not casual friendly. Yes, with proper time and spurts given, you can slowly progress. I know. It is still very manipulative to frame your post in a way with harder content with time commitments. This is an MMO, Deep Dungeons are a rogue lite in an MMO. The easy floors are casual friendly, even some of the early challenge floors, I am not debating that.

I implore you, take your time on floorset 191-200 and tell me if you complete it in time.... Casually.... No rush, kill all enemies, open all chests. All guides advise against this even in a full party, again, how is that casual friendly? You're making examples with completely different content in something that is being debated as considered casual, maybe pick some of the stupid grinds crafting has if you wanted to pick something that took time, not difficult content as you did

Because as tone dead as your original statement was, I was saying the content inside these dungeons aren't difficult, it's a rogue lite, what makes it "difficult" is when RNG is not on your side and wipes your party. I have been with plenty of people who won't touch it because of that factor. You could be the best parser with amazing reflexes and still die to something stupid, even on the earlier floors. Many groups fell apart not because of the difficulty, but because of strings of bad luck wiping us on the higher floors.

Edit: and again, progression in those criterion dungeons is completely different than seeing a new boss on floor 80 of HoH and learning or needing to research said previous guides I'm here to play a game I'll try and fail and restart. I'm fine with that. Ask anyone you consider casual if restarting from floor 1 and going back to floor 80 is worth it (even in easy content, remember this would be 7 duties in) when you barely got any rewards so far? How long does it normally take after a failed prog attempt in dungeons, raids, etc?