Please do not streamline deep dungeons

[Carighan]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons?

I don't get it either. You never really hear of anybody doing them except on reddit, and most players in FCs I've interacted with them do them once, and come away aggressively... mid? It's not bad content by any means, but it's also such a huge waste of ideas, mechanics and designs, for virtually no gameplay derived from them.

[Moomba33]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

I like them. Done lots of party clears over the years of all three that we have so far with friends. Made a few solo attempts but have never succeeded because I'm kinda bad lol.

In my experience one mistake isn't usually a wipe. I've had lots of cases where multiple people died and the lone survivor was able to salvage the situation. The risk of having to start over if you fully wipe gives the content some tension you don't usually find in this game, and the smaller (and flexible) party size makes it less of a hassle to organize compared to forked tower.

I do recognize that having a friend group that enjoys the content puts me in a bubble that may not be reflective of the general player base but I think it's good content and I'm glad SE is making another one.
I'm hoping the new one makes the enemies on lower floors have less hp compared to the ones in Orthos and adds some new gimmicks and floor designs to shake things up.

[ThurinTurambar]

From what i see on lalachievements (i dont know how accurate is the site, but better than no data), about 4.2% of players got Aeturna mount and 8.5% got Juedi (mounts for clearing EO and HoH 4x times if you pick the accessories and not other rewards). 24.3% players cleared floor 100 of HoH, 12.9% cleared floor 100 of EO.
For comparison, ~24.2% cleared m4s once.

While its clear that EO has performed worse, for reasons i will address later, its still a large part of the community that has participated in the content (not to mention that its quite popular to do savage on alt characters for better loot opportunities, and people dont really play DDs on alts, do they)

Deep dungeons are a great investment for SE to keep alive, as it is 'ever-green' content, people return to it in times of content draught, when they're done with the tier of savage or whatever else.


Here are some my thoughts about why EO has underperformed compared to HoH (ignoring the time of release difference)
- poor balance of early floors, burning away the new people. Damage-sponge enemies with lethal abilities that early is just not the play (idea of more powerful avoidable patrols could work, but not all enemies)
- loot is simply subpar. Im talking strictly about the mount - how many people became interested in potd because of the amazing pegasus mount? The EO crab is not cute like the pegasus and is not goofy and funny like the dodo.
- The theme has already been explored with Crystal Tower and The Twinning.
- Overall too gloomy, even palace has more cheer on deep floors.

[Valence]

In my opinion the main reason why EO underperformed is because it's betraying the model and essence of PotD and HoH. It's trying to shoehorn the content into the current pve DDR bosses that we've had, where deep dungeons have never been about that. It's trying to be punishing with gotcha mechanics that just pushed people away.

[Shurrikhan]

"Streamline" be vague as hell, though.

For instance, there are a handful of things that could be considered "streamlining" that I nonetheless wouldn't mind:

• Less clunky pomander/etc. menus.
• Less of an output gap between low and high gear, leaving difficulty scaling to mechanics and thereby floor count (less reduction of challenge from gearing, with progress being more dependent instead on acquired knowledge and pattern recognition).
• More indication on the more unique and punishing of OHKO or near-OHKO mechanics from bosses.
• Slightly more indication (even if just through common patterns) of where traps would be.
• CC traps having their duration halved with each hit taken.
• Less mob HP.
• Slightly weaker mob auto-attacks.
• Small tunnels/runes at the end of long chains of rooms far separated from their last branch that teleport you back to where they forked.

[Raikai]

YP mentioned somewhere "We're happy with the DD model"... so I'm afraid the next one won't be mechanically distinct as many would have hoped for.

Maybe that's why they decided to go for "going horizontally" rather than vertical floors? Just to give the impression that the formula was shaken up.

I wanted to actually see different map designs rather than just the same map with square rooms next to each other.

Ditch pomanders for a completely new power system. (Ironically I think Phantom Jobs would be a fine system for a Deep Dungeon if they were a little more fleshed out)

[Carighan]

Here are some my thoughts about why EO has underperformed compared to HoH (ignoring the time of release difference)
- poor balance of early floors, burning away the new people. Damage-sponge enemies with lethal abilities that early is just not the play (idea of more powerful avoidable patrols could work, but not all enemies)
- loot is simply subpar. Im talking strictly about the mount - how many people became interested in potd because of the amazing pegasus mount? The EO crab is not cute like the pegasus and is not goofy and funny like the dodo.
- The theme has already been explored with Crystal Tower and The Twinning.
- Overall too gloomy, even palace has more cheer on deep floors.

It also has a bit of the WiiU problem: It does not sound like a Deep Dungeon. Eureka XYZ are the zones of, well, Eureka. Coupled with being in a zone nobody ever visits again nowadays and why would they, people just utterly forget there are 3 DDs in this game. I'm not joking, you ask ingame, everyone knows about POTD and that it got a refresh in HoH, but players who have been in 1.0 failed at first chance to mention EO.

[Mesarthim]

I think auto attacks are fine for orthos. HoH autos though were particularly bad in the upper floors. Of course this is coming from a solo perspective. I felt a lot safer as a tank in HoH but would rather go dps for orthos due to the extreme damage sponge hp.

I hated starting EO over because 1-30 is a slog.

[Router]

I think auto attacks are fine for orthos. HoH autos though were particularly bad in the upper floors. Of course this is coming from a solo perspective. I felt a lot safer as a tank in HoH but would rather go dps for orthos due to the extreme damage sponge hp.

I hated starting EO over because 1-30 is a slog.

I do feel like mobs in PotD and especially HoH hit too hard on the later floors, but regardless EO mobs didn't hit hard enough for me. I solo'd on SAM and basically never had to use pots (I think I used less than 10 overall?), which doesn't feel right for a challenge run. Part of that is SAM being tanky of course, but it's also a failure of the content when you don't feel pressured to use your resources on a solo run. I would like to see something between EO and PotD damage output, I think. Enough damage to make tank a reasonable choice instead of the optimal setup being DPS only.

[Altina_Orion]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

Yes, people like to run them with friends and there is an entire community of people who like soloing them. I love the challenge personally.