Please do not streamline deep dungeons

[Valence]

Everything in the game has slowly been reduced to be in service of the same pve encounter model in the recent expansions. It's bosses in a circular arena (or squared if the devs feel particularly daring). It's encounters where it's all about dodging rote memorization of patterns that will oneshot ko.

Eureka Orthos already showed a lot of signs pointing in this direction, in contrast to Palace and Heaven. I do believe this is not a good thing for the game for multiple reasons:

1) It removes content variety and homogenizes all pve across all types of contents, and deep dungeons have been one of the few pieces of content with very unique mechanics, making use of more traditional roguelite and FF rpg mechanics (petrify, slow, heavy etc) that I would find extremely damageable to see gone to the profit of what we already have everywhere else in dungeons, trials and raids.

2) This seems to reduce the difficulty of solo runs (according to solo aficionados), while in my experience it dramatically inflates the difficulty for full party runs of optional floors, which harms the content's accessibility at a more casual level (aka, not solo parties).

With the hope that the next deep dungeon proves not only creative sure, but also actually preserves its core values and doesn't fall for the rampant homogenization that's been taken hold in pve in this game.

Thank you.

[Connor]

Devs (probably): ‘but how else will we make Deep Dungeon appeal to people who don’t like Deep Dungeon?!’

[GainsGoblin]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

[ThurinTurambar]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

There is clearly enough people playing the content for SE to make another edition, so the comment about content being dead is bit funny.

Deep dungeons are not meant to be primarly leveling, thats a secondary effect.
People actually do find them fun, some just do it once for the fancy title, some stay for longer and do scoring or challenge runs.
While i agree that aetherpool is bit outdated and would use some rework, its not terrible either.

Also curious how you think devs should not listen to content creators, while biggest of them are also guide makers and are intimitely acquainted with how a new player feels about the deep dungeons as well as how veterans do.
Another thing is that there wasnt a single person suggesting the problematic changes that EO introduced.


Let me throw a curveball here:
Does anyone actually like savage/ultimate raiding? They stop being fun after 30 minutes of wiping and you only get something out of it (multiple hours in) after you perform flawlessly one time after many many wipes.

[Mesarthim]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

If people disliked deep dungeons I among many others wouldn't be tri-solo title holders. Though Orthos was easily my least favorite of the three.

They aren't dead, people like me just don't do parties. Maybe occasionally duo with a friend.

[PercibelTheren]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

I like them. I run them with a group of 3 friends weekly. They sometimes force us to use spells we otherwise don't get to employ, like Sleep. Stuns and interrupts are genuinely meaningful. Stuff like Echo Drops are useful when you step into a trap. It's also been a nice opportunity for me to "test drive" new jobs before taking them into actual dungeons.

That being said, Eureka Orthos is miserable. The lower floor mobs have way too much HP. Everything can oneshot you. The pomanders aren't as interesting as in previous deep dungeons. Combined with the fact that it gives very little XP, I'm not a fan. As I have stated before, Raha needs to clean his own basement, preferably with a nuke.

[Carighan]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons?

I don't get it either. You never really hear of anybody doing them except on reddit, and most players in FCs I've interacted with them do them once, and come away aggressively... mid? It's not bad content by any means, but it's also such a huge waste of ideas, mechanics and designs, for virtually no gameplay derived from them.

[Moomba33]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

I like them. Done lots of party clears over the years of all three that we have so far with friends. Made a few solo attempts but have never succeeded because I'm kinda bad lol.

In my experience one mistake isn't usually a wipe. I've had lots of cases where multiple people died and the lone survivor was able to salvage the situation. The risk of having to start over if you fully wipe gives the content some tension you don't usually find in this game, and the smaller (and flexible) party size makes it less of a hassle to organize compared to forked tower.

I do recognize that having a friend group that enjoys the content puts me in a bubble that may not be reflective of the general player base but I think it's good content and I'm glad SE is making another one.
I'm hoping the new one makes the enemies on lower floors have less hp compared to the ones in Orthos and adds some new gimmicks and floor designs to shake things up.

[Altina_Orion]

Does anyone honestly like deep dungeons? They don't get any fun until very late (multiple hours in) and the fun ends if you make a single mistake, the same nonsense as Forked Tower where you have to put several hours aside and schedule a discord run in advance for a single pity pull. Leveling is just 21-30 spam despite having 100 floors, same for aetherpool leveling. Eureka Orthos was basically DOA content, people sometimes even forget it existed in Endwalker.

They don't need to be streamlined, they need a complete rework and they need to stop listening to the few content creators who run this content 24/7 for some unknown reason - the content is deader than disco

Yes, people like to run them with friends and there is an entire community of people who like soloing them. I love the challenge personally.

[Valence]

I don't do them solo much so I can't speak for the crowd that loves this, but there is definitely a dedicated niche for that and I can see why, there is a lot of decisions and things to manage carefully while running them solo, and it's unforgiving for the people that also look for a challenge.
I do agree that the leveling sections are boring and tedious, and that's exactly for similar reasons that normal dungeons can also be a snoozefest. I do however enjoy the semi casual experience they offer in optional higher floors.
I also do agree they need a shake up to make them more engaging, but this cannot come at the cost of their identity and niche which prompted this thread.