@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[Volgia]

DDs casual? Please, do tell me the many people who easily clear the higher floors of any DD out there. The higher floors are called challenge floors for a reason. They're even adding a higher difficulty boss after clearing it to try and entice you to actually try DDs because I can tell you haven't touched any of the orbs solo by your posts. Should be easy for you to do? Why not do it to prove it's casual?

You don't start that content at the highest level floors and you only need organized parties later on, it is 90% casual content, with again 10% of really hardcore difficulty. Before you react so aggressively please take a moment to think, jesus christ.

[Uzephi]

Before you react so aggressively please take a moment to think, jesus christ.

I never knew asking questions as being aggressive. Quite honest question. You claim it's casual, then please tell me how the higher floors are casual. If you can't 'complete' it in a casual sense, is it considered even partially casual? The basis around needing the coordination and planning for a successful clear inherently causes friction in many casual play styles to consider it casual. Aligning schedules for that many successful duties with the same people each attempt puts quite a barrier for many you seem to dismiss or just ignore.

[Auro_Seldaris]

That list is dishonest about the topic.

First lets remove all the non-battle-content because that content is for everyone, not just casuals.

So lets take a closer look at the "normal difficulty" side and the "higher difficulty" side
- MSQ = onetime for everyone low difficulty because everyone needs to be able to do it
- 1 dungeon per patch with 0 reason to play it more than 1 time
- 4 normal raids (loot: gear + minion)
--- with 4 savage raids (loot: higher gear + mount)
- alliance raid (loot: gear on par with tomestone... + minion)
--- chaotic (loot: 2 mounts and more)
- base OC (loot: glam, worthless stuff, 1 mount)
--- FT (loot: TT card, field notes, mount, sanguinite for +2 OC gear)
- normal trails (no loot)
--- extreme trails (loot: mount)
- treasure hunt low difficulty good loot
--- ultimate high difficulty - glowing weapons, glamplate stuff
--- Unreal (lots of mounts)


Raiders complained about criterion rewards, but take a look at all that casual-battle-content with close to no rewards at all.

Remember that Yoshida said they understood there was a "rewards and incentive" problem with content like Criterion? Remember when he said that Dawntrail would have "about 50% more rewards" for its content? Pepperidge Farms (and I) remembers...

[Volgia]

I never knew asking questions as being aggressive. Quite honest question. You claim it's casual, then please tell me how the higher floors are casual. If you can't 'complete' it in a casual sense, is it considered even partially casual? The basis around needing the coordination and planning for a successful clear inherently causes friction in many casual play styles to consider it casual. Aligning schedules for that many successful duties with the same people each attempt puts quite a barrier for many you seem to dismiss or just ignore.

Do I need a specialized party to do floor 1 - 60 of PoTD? Nope. Same for HoH, and same for Orthos. The upper floors are hardcore but the content itself, 90% of it, is CASUAL.

[Uzephi]

Do I need a specialized party to do floor 1 - 60 of PoTD? Nope. Same for HoH, and same for Orthos. The upper floors are hardcore but the content itself, 90% of it, is CASUAL.

How is 60 floors of 200 90% please math correctly.

Edit: also, HoH and EO only up to floor 30 doesn't need a fixed party, so 30 floors of 100 also isn't 90%

Potd is actually more casual friendly since 101+ is just 'hard' version of 1-100. Casuals actually miss out on content with EO and HoH if they can't get a reliable group to clear it since every floor set is different in those.

[Altina_Orion]

Lord Almighty! Just stop!

The discussion is about the game only providing content to high-end raiders, not about difficulty....

THIS ISNT THE CASE THOUGH, OC itself is very casual content even though forked is not (it's just under EX level). You got cosmic exploration. You get ocean fishing expansions and a new deep dungeon coming up. You get 12 normal raids, 3 alliance raids, like 12 dungeons, crafting and gathering activities, the hunt, fates, etc. The issue is that casual content is so unengaging sometimes that you don't consider it as content. Trust me, the game caters no more to raiders than it does to casuals, but it SUCKS at catering to either of them. Open your eyes. 7.3 is ALL casual content, literally nothing for raiders.

[Altina_Orion]

But they haven't released "Nothing but raids", the only new raid thing they released was Chaotic. Everything else has been the same content patch release since Stormblood.

The problem isn't the lack of varied new content, the problem is the normal content has become dull and boring, they decimated most of the complex systems pre-Shadowbringers and now we're just on that late stage version of the game where no one is happy.

The game has also fostered a strong divide between casual/hardcore content. So if anything in normal mode gives you a bit of friction (STrayborough, M2N) people come here in tears asking why they don't toss that onto the hardcore pile, or wonder why no one is catering towards them specifically.

You accused me of arguing in bad faith and nitpicking so IDK if responding to you is productive, but this is my stance on the matter.

People don't understand this and its baffling. Like, look at the patch notes, its MOSTLY casual content.

[Altina_Orion]

DDs casual? Please, do tell me the many people who easily clear the higher floors of any DD out there. The higher floors are called challenge floors for a reason. They're even adding a higher difficulty boss after clearing it to try and entice you to actually try DDs because I can tell you haven't touched any of the orbs solo by your posts. Should be easy for you to do? Why not do it to prove it's casual?

DD is absolutely casual. People solo them all the time, with a group of 4 its not much more hard than a regular dungeon.

[Uzephi]

DD is absolutely casual. People solo them all the time, with a group of 4 its not much more hard than a regular dungeon.

As I've said in this thread: difficulty =/= casual. And if people solo these dungeons all the time, why are the solo titles rarer than most savage titles, heck, even the VC titles are less rare meaning more people have completed savage criterion dungeons than soloing deep dungeons.

[Auro_Seldaris]

THIS ISNT THE CASE THOUGH, OC itself is very casual content even though forked is not (it's just under EX level). You got cosmic exploration. You get ocean fishing expansions and a new deep dungeon coming up. You get 12 normal raids, 3 alliance raids, like 12 dungeons, crafting and gathering activities, the hunt, fates, etc. The issue is that casual content is so unengaging sometimes that you don't consider it as content. Trust me, the game caters no more to raiders than it does to casuals, but it SUCKS at catering to either of them. Open your eyes. 7.3 is ALL casual content, literally nothing for raiders.

The problem is not necessarily that it "Caters exclusively" to raiders, so much as it "Prioritizes" them. Harvey Randall has mentioned this more than once in his articles on PC Gamer - the primary issue is that raid content is prioritized over content for casual/midcore players. He pointed out that almost all content with any teeth to it that has been released since DT launch has been raid-oriented. Specifically he criticized CSIII for delaying OC until a year into the expansion and prioritizing raid content that only a small portion of the community engages with over something that more people would interface with. (My personal opinion is that exploratory zone/relic step 1 should literally come with the expansion launch.)

I'll unironically agree with you that the game does actually suck at catering to EVERY type of player. And also that most casual-tier content is so boring and braindead that many people literally don't even consider it content. Personally, I yawn and roll my eyes at things like Beast Tribes, Limited Jobs, or Unreal, I couldn't care less. I don't consider those things to be content, they're so bland and uninteresting. We should be getting new things, not the same old same old regurgitated for the hundredth time.