yoshi what are you doing to steel cyclone ):?

[Arcell]

Steel Cyclone needs a longer recast. Off the top of my head I can't think of another class/job that has a full combo recast at 30 seconds, not to mention AoE with only one directional condition. Monk has a single-target equivalent (Howling Fist combo) but it has a much longer recast.

Nerfing the damage a bit could help too, I mean right now Warriors just tear through any number of enemies. Especially when farming groups of enemies, you cannot beat a Warrior.

Hopefully this will help push people away from WAR stacking everything with groups of enemies. I mean Dragoon has a small handful of good AoE attacks but why bring them when you can bring Warrior with its 360 degree death Cyclone with a lower recast?

[fusional]

I mean Dragoon has a small handful of good AoE attacks but why bring them when you can bring Warrior with its 360 degree death Cyclone with a lower recast?

because dragoon, geared and played correctly, does equal aoe dps and quite a lot more single target dps.

people bring warriors because most dragoons (well, not really limited to dragoons, but...) are awful and warrior is really easy to do serviceable dps with. same reason people bring blm (though admittedly either blm really needs a nerf or encounters need to stop being designed in such a way as to cater to blm's strengths)

[Arcell]

because dragoon, geared and played correctly, does equal aoe dps and quite a lot more single target dps

But their AoEs are on a higher recast and they've got a lower survivability (HP). On something like Hamlet Defense which is an AoE fest I tried to go Dragoon and was told outright by a PUG group to go back to Warrior because it had better AoEs and HP.

[fusional]

But their AoEs are on a higher recast and they've got a lower survivability (HP). On something like Hamlet Defense which is an AoE fest I tried to go Dragoon and was told outright by a PUG group to go back to Warrior because it had better AoEs and HP.

warriors are preferred for hamlet because frontal combos are easy, and because the crit mechanic of steel cyclone has good synergy with rampage. the HP pools are the icing on the cake.

as far as aoes having higher recast, that's patently false. leg sweep is 30 seconds, frontal, and only requires 1 combo step, rather than two. it's also only 1k tp, so it's much less punishing to use it out of combo in a pinch. (combo is still preferred, though, for stun) next we have ring of talons. if you need aoe, keen flurry gives this two uses in 1 minute. same as steel cyclone. the caveat here is that it combos from impulse drive, which forces you to stack accuracy so you don't miss. and then there's dragonfire dive, which is 15mins, but is a great "oh sh-" button.

keeping in mind whirlwind, which is on an 80 second cooldown- assuming infinite TP and perfect ability timing, warrior has exactly 6 aoe attacks available in a 90 second span. dragoon has 8. if we reduce the requirement to 60 seconds, warrior has 4 available aoe's to dragoon's 7. if we reduce the requirement to 30 seconds, warrior has 3 available to dragoon's 5. so, no. technically dragoon has more available aoe firepower than warrior.

and while warrior does look and feel completely OP on useless level 50 mobs (and it is), as i said before and i maintain- geared and played correctly dragoon has a higher aoe dps ceiling... as well as much higher single target dps to boot.

none of this is to say warrior doesn't potentially need to be tweaked a little, but it is to say that the community often barks up the wrong trees in the process.

[Vaymathias]

warriors are preferred for hamlet because frontal combos are easy, and because the crit mechanic of steel cyclone has good synergy with rampage. the HP pools are the icing on the cake.

as far as aoes having higher recast, that's patently false. leg sweep is 30 seconds, frontal, and only requires 1 combo step, rather than two. it's also only 1k tp, so it's much less punishing to use it out of combo in a pinch. (combo is still preferred, though, for stun) next we have ring of talons. if you need aoe, keen flurry gives this two uses in 1 minute. same as steel cyclone. the caveat here is that it combos from impulse drive, which forces you to stack accuracy so you don't miss. and then there's dragonfire dive, which is 15mins, but is a great "oh sh-" button.

keeping in mind whirlwind, which is on an 80 second cooldown- assuming infinite TP and perfect ability timing, warrior has exactly 6 aoe attacks available in a 90 second span. dragoon has 8. if we reduce the requirement to 60 seconds, warrior has 4 available aoe's to dragoon's 7. if we reduce the requirement to 30 seconds, warrior has 3 available to dragoon's 5. so, no. technically dragoon has more available aoe firepower than warrior.

and while warrior does look and feel completely OP on useless level 50 mobs (and it is), as i said before and i maintain- geared and played correctly dragoon has a higher aoe dps ceiling... as well as much higher single target dps to boot.

none of this is to say warrior doesn't potentially need to be tweaked a little, but it is to say that the community often barks up the wrong trees in the process.

It's not so much that they can do damage so well, it's that they can do damage so well at the same time as tanking. Just because they do slightly less damage than a drg, is FAR offset since at the same time they're outclassing PLDs.

[Hulan]

It's not so much that they can do damage so well, it's that they can do damage so well at the same time as tanking. Just because they do slightly less damage than a drg, is FAR offset since at the same time they're outclassing PLDs.

...Which is what is interesting about these changes. I, for one, am all for the proposed changes to both WAR and PLD. That being said, it does seem that they are not really addressing the big issue here; that being that WAR can DD well and Tank better than any class, when the proposed job was a DD with the ability to tank if needed. I do not play WAR, so I only have the raw stats to go by, but it seems like these changes will do the most damage to WAR's ability to DD, not to it's ability to tank. Hopefully this is well thought out and will achieve the intended results, only time will tell.