Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[AvoSturmfaust]

You would be wrong because there absolutely is not any hole in the ToS where a GM is going to punish someone for being a burden to others with bad play. There would have to be solid proof they had violated the griefing ToS parameters and just being bad or inexperienced is not going to fulfill that.

There is always a hole, like i said "no wall2wall" is actually griefing and can be reported, even if the tank is "unexperienced" so why wouldnt that be a reason to get reported? its always a matter of interpretation

and btw being "bad" while still joining hard content which requires teamwork and coordination and a certain dps is actually griefing

[TaleraRistain]

There is always a hole, like i said "no wall2wall" is actually griefing and can be reported, even if the tank is "unexperienced" so why wouldnt that be a reason to get reported? its always a matter of interpretation

and btw being "bad" while still joining hard content which requires teamwork and coordination and a certain dps is actually griefing

You can report for whatever you want but it's laughable that you think any GM is going to consider either of those valid.

[Kasumii]

There is always a hole, like i said "no wall2wall" is actually griefing and can be reported, even if the tank is "unexperienced" so why wouldnt that be a reason to get reported? its always a matter of interpretation

and btw being "bad" while still joining hard content which requires teamwork and coordination and a certain dps is actually griefing

I mean if were pulling out the ToS:

Calling someone "bad" itself is actually against ToS if you ever bothered to read them: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

"Making statements intended to belittle someone, such as "you can't do [something], maybe this is just not possible for you?" If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

It is prohibited for groups of players to target and ridicule a specific player. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

* The above act involves an excessive amount of criticism/condemnation. Players may not denounce another player. If you feel a player is causing an issue, please file a report."

As well as:

"・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master)
Key Points
It is prohibited to make statements such as the following examples to try to kick someone from the party, content, community, etc. as if they are not qualified to participate. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."


Please note that Square Enix may issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed but the act was found being conducted in public areas such as Say and Shout, search comments, Party Finder, or online video/streaming services.
"

I think this last part is especially important for the discussion at hand because IT QUITE LITERALLY STATES IN THE TOS THAT YOU CANNOT JUST EXCLUDE PEOPLE.
And I would advocate ANYONE (especially OP in this case) to actually report groups that treat you like this for wanting to join FT. Just because you are a random does not mean you are not as important as the other players. You can always redirect those calling you a sniper to the ToS.

Final edit:
About this section in the ToS:

・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.
Key Points
Each player has a different level of skill, and in some cases, there may be a situation where the duty/content will fail. From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately.


If a random simply joins your run and tries their best and then wipes you (at the traps or whatever) then guess what: they still havent done anything wrong since they are trying their best. I really don't know why everyone is acting so elitist when they know full well they have no ground to stand on and no real reason to keep randoms away from their little clique. As long as they don't act malicious (and taking a spot isnt being malicious, they are simply playing the cipher lottery like the devs intended) and try their best.

[RuriStone]

There is always a hole, like i said "no wall2wall" is actually griefing and can be reported, even if the tank is "unexperienced" so why wouldnt that be a reason to get reported? its always a matter of interpretation

and btw being "bad" while still joining hard content which requires teamwork and coordination and a certain dps is actually griefing

No it isn't at all this is bull.

[AvoSturmfaust]

The whole Thread here showed me yet again one big thing, the Raiders arent the Issues, the Issue are straight up the Plebs, and i say it from the start with Plebs i dont talk about Casuals, because Casuals enjoy a Challenge too, you arent a Hardcoreplayer automatic if you raid or anything just from to start. With Plebs i mean people for them even the Storydungeons are too hard, People which are straight up refuse to have social interactions in a MMORPG or People which refuse to Improve in any way, the best for them is a Boss which doesnt hit back and they can kill them with 20s between button presses, so trash straight up trash.

You got 1 Person which organized 47 People, prepared with them together, watched Guides, watched Strats heck maybe even was already in with the same Group, then tries to hop through instances to get all 48 People in one Instance and get snipped by one single person and even if you ask them and explain the wanna do it with the group they builded, this one dude has no respect at all and tries to FORCE his way into the Content because "i pay my sub its public content im entilted to it"

Bruh, if there is a Demonstration on a PUBLIC STREET even if its a PUBLIC STREET i cant just drive with my car through it i have to take other ways around, what i wanna say with it, only because its Public Content doesnt mean you cant force your way all the time in it, just respect other people.

When i see then here how many People are against Discord, Pls just quit the Game i mean seriously, i come from MMOs where Voice was a obligation if you joined a Guild or anything but here in Final? Its a meeting point for weak ass minded introvert pus... "oh i dont wanna join discord oh noooo" then quit the game, if you dont wanna social interactions in a MMO, organized Discordgroups were always be a part of any MMO but here in Final the People are really crying about everything it seems

MMOs were always know for Endgamecontent and Challenges in them, give me one MMO which is completly for "Plebs" or People which refuse any Social Interaction, there is none.

Why are you playing a MMO if you dont like the Combat? Dont like Challenges, Grind, Social Interactions, Voicechats etc etc etc? If its for the Story, just watch a Recap on Youtube.

[AvoSturmfaust]

snip

If you pull the ToS Card :

"Just as in the real world, it is important to be considerate of other players to maintain cordial relationships and positive experiences in the world of Final Fantasy XIV. It is prohibited to make expressions or to act in ways that would be unacceptable in the real world. This includes disturbing the peace and having a lack of consideration for others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued."

"having a lack of consideration for others" if i watch Guides, Learn Strats, try to get 48 People in one Instance and there is one Person which doesnt Respect the Time involvment and shows no consideration if someone wants to do the Content with 48 Premades and forces his way into it, i clearly call that a lack of consideration of other players.

Found my hole.

[Kasumii]

The whole Thread here showed me yet again one big thing, the Raiders arent the Issues, the Issue are straight up the Plebs, and i say it from the start with Plebs i dont talk about Casuals, because Casuals enjoy a Challenge too, you arent a Hardcoreplayer automatic if you raid or anything just from to start. With Plebs i mean people for them even the Storydungeons are too hard, People which are straight up refuse to have social interactions in a MMORPG or People which refuse to Improve in any way, the best for them is a Boss which doesnt hit back and they can kill them with 20s between button presses, so trash straight up trash.

I would once more direct you towards the ToS which clearly state:

"・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master)
Key Points
It is prohibited to make statements such as the following examples to try to kick someone from the party, content, community, etc. as if they are not qualified to participate. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

As well as:




Please note that Square Enix may issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed but the act was found being conducted in public areas such as Say and Shout, search comments, Party Finder, or online video/streaming services.
"

You don't have to like it. But what you are doing right now is gatekeeping and goes entirely against ToS.

Also your entire response is a big big yikes and falls squarely under harassment so much so that I don't even know where to begin lmao. But you made your point. You clearly don't want people like me around and that's more than fine. Problem is people like me make up a good chunk of the game sooo.

[Carin-Eri]

Bruh, if there is a Demonstration on a PUBLIC STREET even if its a PUBLIC STREET i cant just drive with my car through it i have to take other ways around, what i wanna say with it, only because its Public Content doesnt mean you cant force your way all the time in it, just respect other people.

Whilst I get where you're coming from with this analogy, in context there is absolutely nothing to stop you parking your car and joining that demonstration either. Which is exactly the point some are making here.

[Kasumii]

If you pull the ToS Card :

"Just as in the real world, it is important to be considerate of other players to maintain cordial relationships and positive experiences in the world of Final Fantasy XIV. It is prohibited to make expressions or to act in ways that would be unacceptable in the real world. This includes disturbing the peace and having a lack of consideration for others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued."

"having a lack of consideration for others" if i watch Guides, Learn Strats, try to get 48 People in one Instance and there is one Person which doesnt Respect the Time involvment and shows no consideration if someone wants to do the Content with 48 Premades and forces his way into it, i clearly call that a lack of consideration of other players.

Found my hole.

And I think I also already told you you are absolutely free to report them if you see fit. That is what the report button does and what it's there for. You and I can only throw mud against each other for so long. I don't believe you have any grounds to stand on and you don't believe I have any grounds to stand on. I will keep reporting people calling others snipers and you can start reporting randoms. We're both happy and the GMs have to decide at the end of the day.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Whilst I get where you're coming from with this analogy, in context there is absolutely nothing to stop you parking your car and joining that demonstration either. Which is exactly the point some are making here.

True but thats the Point "joining the demonstration" look, if there would be a random which would then join Discord and be PART of the Group maybe watch quick a guide to get atleast a small glance it would be a smaller issues, but most of the people even refuse to look over a guide, or even join discord then, and thats my issue, they try to force a way in the group but not even trying to adjust to the other 47 People