Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[Jeeqbit]

Except the "fully organized group" isn't the INTENT

If that's true, then go and PUG it? SE left their "organized group content" calling card on it - which is limited rez. If it was the intent, we'd all be pugging it like we did CLL, DR and Dalriada in Shadowbringers.

given the acknowledged "they deliberately got someone killed and refused to rez them"

By all accounts I've read, the people who die are not killed on purpose. Rather, they are killed by a tank buster they stood in because they don't know the mechanics. This seems overwhelmingly likely to happen to people who enter on their own without discord callouts. Rezzing is a risk due to the their lack of cooperation with the rest of the players there and the fact their lack of coordination can cause the rest of them to fail. I'm sure nobody has a problem linking them the discords if they genuinely don't know about them.

I understand the point trying to be made. I just disagree with the "people aren't saying it's okay to be a jerk" part

It's important to also understand that these forums are cross-region. People in the EU region are, on average, far more blunt and more sweaty when it comes to raids. They will more often call people out directly and be rude in dungeons. For some that may actually be the language barrier where pleasantries get lost in translation, but for others it's very cultural. In comparison, the NA region is pretty casual overall - both its attitudes and its raiders. I can always rely on an average NA player to just have returned to the game after a long break or to have a miniscule amount of playtime, and to thus be way more chill - and underprepared.

So here on the forums we have a mix of NA and EU posters but it is actually reflected in the game as well; in my experience the EU region players will bluntly call you out for things in the most rude way even in dungeons/MSQ content, demand blog, in ways the NA region just doesn't really care about much in comparison.

Don't get me wrong. There are loads of truly nice, kind-hearted people in the EU region and that's probably even the majority, but in an average day, you will actually run into such "blunt" players in the EU region and that's been my experience on any day or any year I've logged into the EU worlds, but is virtually never the case while playing in NA.

Also, while we may be pleasant in the game, we tell the truth here on the forums. To the developers, and to eachother. And while it may not be easy to read sometimes, it's important for there to be a space where you can get the truth. So if I say the word "snipe" on the forums, I'm being blunt, but that doesn't mean I'd say it to them directly in the game, because that would be rude. But on the forums? Again, this is where you come to get the truth, or to ask posters to figure out the truth together.

I have had people barge into shout chat demanding half the instance leaves so their beloved discord group can do FT.

Never seen that. Depending on the context, it could be a joke or the person may not actually represent the discord itself. It's hard for a discord server to regulate the actions of 48 players in the game. But you absolutely shouldn't leave, because you can't guarantee everyone else will. The discord servers are more likely to try and find an instance with the appropriate space, because that's a lot more logical.

Having been denied the ability to interact with FT, and been given bugger all else to do of any merit for nearly 12 months, they may very well conclude that the only way they can actually interact with FT is to scupper as many Discord runs as possible.

Hey maybe they will even start their own Discord. Something like FF14FFT. And you will be well and truly forked.

The thing is that there are already multiple discords that do it on some data centers / regions. I believe they have to concede coordinating with eachother to avoid drama because of the way it works or when participation drops.

And what this all comes back to, regardless of the point being made, is that the design of this just doesn't work and SE needs to make it like DRS if they want it to be a High-End duty, and like CLL/Dalriada/DR if they want it to be casual. Those methods worked about as well as they are going to for the respective difficulties.

[Tyintheron]

If that's true, then go and PUG it? SE left their "organized group content" calling card on it - which is limited rez. If it was the intent, we'd all be pugging it like we did CLL, DR and Dalriada in Shadowbringers.

But that's the point, isn't it? That that's what the OP tried to do. There were no barriers in their way to doing it - just a group being jerks about it on the other side.

By all accounts I've read, the people who die are not killed on purpose. Rather, they are killed by a tank buster they stood in because they don't know the mechanics.

I mean, sure, that can happen. OP seemed quite sure they were deliberately killed, though, which seems to be supported by the fact they were then refused a res.

It's important to also understand that these forums are cross-region. People in the EU region are, on average, far more blunt and more sweaty when it comes to raids. They will more often call people out directly and be rude in dungeons.

I hear what you're saying. I'm just not sure why.

If "the truth" people are so interested in telling is "I'm okay with being a jerk to people in the game who get in my way" then more power to them on their self-reporting forum rampages, I guess.

The part I'm not sure about is whether you're telling me I should be more okay with someone tank-busting me because in French they'd say "Le Tank Busteurre, le croissant-head!" or something (important note: it's possible I do not speak any French), which is therefore a much more socially acceptable way of griefing me in Europe.

You'd better believe that if someone deliberately tank-busts me I'm writing angrily about them being mean in my dream journal at the end of the day, no matter WHERE they come from.

[Jeeqbit]

But that's the point, isn't it? That that's what the OP tried to do. There were no barriers in their way to doing it - just a group being jerks about it on the other side.

They weren't really jerks though. They politely explained the nature of the content but also said they could join if they absolutely insist since the game allows them to. But, naturally, that they could not realistically rez them if they mess up because it would sabotage the run.

This is something OP was aware of considering they watched a guide, so the explanation they were given about it needing premades would have made complete sense to them.

They would also have been aware that, if the other people there were a premade, that there are mechanics they could get wrong that would inconsiderately cause that premade 46 to be ejected. If I was in their position, I would not want to selfishly inconvenience that many people. That, in and of itself, would be as rude as joining a clear party in PF when I'm at fresh prog. We could make a similar argument for that "but SE technically lets you join the PF as fresh prog even though the rest of them are clear-ready therefore they must accept wiping for hours". It comes down to social interaction, which is exactly what took place.

I mean, sure, that can happen. OP seemed quite sure they were deliberately killed, though, which seems to be supported by the fact they were then refused a res.

If a rez means 46 people will have had their time wasted, it doesn't make logical sense to rez. There is an opportunity at the beginning to demonstrate they know the fight enough to not be a risk, but it doesn't seem they had the same experience the others there did.

The part I'm not sure about is whether you're telling me I should be more okay with someone tank-busting me because in French they'd say "Le Tank Busteurre, le croissant-head!"

That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that it's regional and that people are assuming this entire incident is an NA issue and that NA are also this rude, but this incident was in the EU and so I was giving context that being rude/blunt is the "norm" in the EU compared to NA. All I'm saying is, just because this "rudeness" is a prevaling issue in all EU content types, doesn't mean it is in NA, and that minds should be open that NA discords don't necessarily operate the same way either.