Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[DynnDiablos]

The comments in this thread just show how elitist the content continues to become. As a player of 12+ years, FFXIV moving to cater to raiders and high-end content players has created a real problem with content basically being inaccessible to anyone who isn't willing to jump through hoops.

Also, if content is designed in a way you literally need to memorize pages of mechanics, raid guides, routes, and strategic plans, how is that accessible? How is that even FUN? Like f--k that. I play games to let off steam, not do college-level homework in order to clear something.

And as I predicted, only a couple weeks into OC, and these types of large-scale raids are turning into discord-only content (though I'd argue it was designed that way from the start). The amount of people needed to coordinate and make a run successful is absolutely ludicrous. I look forward to OC being dead and abandoned and only left to the elitist players within the next month.

[Voidmage]

“If you sniped a spot that means 47 other people are there”

So your point basically amounts to “if i join a run and don’t match the expectations of the rest of the group i should just be carried”.

No I didn’t say that but go ahead and believe it because I don’t answer to an obvious attempt at twisting my words.

Tell me if you joined an organised run and they told you you took a geo’s spot and you didn’t have geo levelled would you amicably leave the instance or just expect someone else to run geo?

Why should the do that with a random though? They would delegate them to a position with the least amount of responsibility as possible or get them in the chat.

A lot of these groups set entry requirements because of how difficult this is around prog point. This isn’t modern BA Zerg fest. If they want to prog the third boss and you have never been in the instance is it really fair for you to impose on them just because it’s casual content? Are your wants more than theirs.
Nobody should be killing anyone else but you aren’t automatically entitled to other people’s time because you got into a run that people wanted to pre organise. Amongst regular BA hosts I was actually an outlier in that I was willing to do a second run to clear both the sniper and the sniped but again that was because modern BA is a Zerg fest. Forked simply isn’t like that

They aren’t entitled to be carried just as much as the other side isn’t entitled to the raid.

I really wonder what even your argument is here.
That players are in the wrong for going in the tower?
Even Xenos agreed that they are in the right for just going in. The only thing they can’t expect is a raise.

Hate on the system and not the player who wants to get inside this damn tower outside freaking Discord.

[AmiableApkallu]

These raiders could have also just dropped a Discord link into chat and ask to join them

The funny thing is, I've seen savage party finder groups do exactly that, and what makes that work is the fact that there's some shared understanding of how the instance is going to play out: the strat, the raid plan, whatever you want to call it.

It sounds to me like the problem with Forked Tower is that premades are trying their hardest to work against the free-for-all entry system. Forked Tower doesn't have Baldesion Arsenal's fifty check boxes of, "Are you sure you understand that this is hard content??" And even if it did, random folk might show up anyway, so premades need a plan.

"Please don't snipe."

Comes across as rude and exclusionary. On the other hand:

"Hey, there's a group of us here who are all trying to join together. We've got a couple spots free, but this is like savage-level content, so if you wanna read up and join us in voice chat, that'd be great."

or

"Hey, there's a full group of 48 here. We're hoping to go in all together, but if you want to join us in future runs, check out {link}. We'd love to have you the next time around."

Apparently, we can all use shout chat to spam venue ads and carrot locations, but heavens forbid someone use shout chat to build up anything around Forked Tower.

[0blivion]

If SE catered to raiders, the jobs wouldn't be this braindead. I'm a bad player myself, but everyone can read a guide and join a discord without actively sabotaging players.

Also, I figured out how to upvote on mobile.

Since ciphers get refunded if you leave instance, if this sniping behavior continues and people like OP keep ignoring the polite pointers in /say, people will just straight up start leaving instance immediately when they see unresponsive or intentionally sniping players, or have everyone bring 3 ciphers minimum.

[Aravell]

I see a lot of people say their right to enter the content should be respected, but very few show any respect to the other side.

Mutual respect would be if you went to the pavillion and asked the party there if they can accommodate you with your current prog point and available jobs. If they say no, you should then acknowledge that it's very easy for you to simply leave the instance and try your luck in another rather than disrespect this organised party (who possibly spent upwards of an hour trying to get everyone into the same instance) by forcing your way in and expecting them to happily invite you in after you blocked out one of the people they organised with from entering the content.

[Supersnow845]

No I didn’t say that but go ahead and believe it because I don’t answer to an obvious attempt at twisting my words.


Why should the do that with a random though? They would delegate them to a position with the least amount of responsibility as possible or get them in the chat.


They aren’t entitled to be carried just as much as the other side isn’t entitled to the raid.

I really wonder what even your argument is here.
That players are in the wrong for going in the tower?
Even Xenos agreed that they are in the right for just going in. The only thing they can’t expect is a raise.

Hate on the system and not the player who wants to get inside this damn tower outside freaking Discord.

I’m saying you are entitled to get into the raid but you are entitled to literally nothing more. If the rest of the organised group decides to leave you alone there that’s totally fine. If people request you perform some role you should at least be amicable to accepting it given that’s how the devs seem to imagine the content will work.

I’m already hating on the system it’s my entire point, that the system is the problem. But I don’t particularly like people who specifically try to join an instance where a group is trying to organise when there is 50 instances where there isn’t an organised run. You preached of basic decency in your last post, is it not basic decency that if a group wants to play together and asks you nicely to allow them to play together that you do that. Nobody is being gatekept, they can instance swap and try to recruit in the new instance……it won’t work but if you don’t try you are basically trying to jump in at organisation from the last minute and people are allowed to ask you to leave especially when you can mess up their run because you took important spots.

Is it really so hard to imagine “don’t assassinate a sniper if you decide to continue the run when someone sniped” and “if you see people putting in the effort to organise a run and they ask you to not come in then respect that request” can coexist

If a group has organised themselves and want to play together then why is it so bad to just let them, there is 40 other instances open

[Volgia]

Another minefield of a thread.

I can see how it would feel like people were mean to you, but this is just not understanding field's operations etiquette more than anything else. If you aren't part of their premade you're being asked to be carried throughout the whole effort it takes to organize a run.

[Voidmage]

snip

Why are you even arguing with me if you agree that no one is entitled?
I even said that you can’t expect a raise in there (even if I don’t agree with it and have my own thoughts about that behavior).
But you CAN’T forbid anyone from entering. That’s the WHOLE DAMN PROBLEM!

What I do expect though is IF someone gets in there, that people actually
A: respect to get in line with the premade group and do what they say
B: the other group actually TRIES to include those players instead of PK’ing them.

The Discords even say that “you can’t expect to get a spot 100% because everyone can theoretically join that content”.

[Supersnow845]

Why are you even arguing with me if you agree that no one is entitled?
I even said that you can’t expect a raise in there (even if I don’t agree with it and have my own thoughts about that behavior).
But you CAN’T forbid anyone from entering. That’s the WHOLE DAMN PROBLEM!

What I do expect though is IF someone gets in there, that people actually
A: respect to get in line with the premade group and do what they say
B: the other group actually TRIES to include those players instead of PK’ing them.

The Discords even say that “you can’t expect to get a spot 100% because everyone can theoretically join that content”.

I never disagreed with you initially I asked if you would agree with the concept that if someone enters in place of another that had an important role or they were at a different prog point to you would you be willing to leave because their needs are different to yours. That was my original question

You can’t be blocked from the content but we seem to simply disagree on the idea that just because you can’t be blocked that you should be fine to impose even if asked politely not to.

[Voidmage]

I never disagreed with you initially I asked if you would agree with the concept that if someone enters in place of another that had an important role or they were at a different prog point to you would you be willing to leave because their needs are different to yours. That was my original question

“I” would be willing to leave yes but I would also at least expect a modicum of respect instead of a red ring of death to the face.
A simple asking if had seen a raid guide or what my prog point is would be enough already.
But I am also someone who is just terrified of wiping a group.

That’s without the fact the groups I have seen till now usually have enough “team leaders” to shuffle them around if needed because that situation is expected already.

You can’t be blocked from the content but we seem to simply disagree on the idea that just because you can’t be blocked that you should be fine to impose even if asked politely not to.

Yes we disagree on that because I don’t see it as imposing at all.

I understand being bumbed for being left out if you are in a Discord but on the other hand in the rules or faq or whatever of them you already agree that this thing can happen and that the random players have as much right to join as you do.