Revelations from Patch 7.2: Seekers of Eternity

[Pimsan20]

And how does Calyx even know about not only the reflections, but how did he know that his reflection is the 9th? My bet is that he somehow captured an Ascian and gain the intel about the source and the reflection. I can't think of any on how he would know. And do not forget that he look really young and the Endless didn't exist until Otis volunteered to be experimented when he was an old man. So we can't be sure if Calyx an Endless or if he learn how to life without a body like the Ascian.

There is so little information about Calyx and his organization.

[Connor]

Being super woke here lol but am I the only one who finds it extremely problematic that basically the antagonist was just a man’s puppet the entire time? God forbid a woman (AI) shows some agency lol. Has to be a man behind it…

Idk I think I prefer ‘AI got confused between Sphene personality and its programmed commands’ to ‘shut-in hacker boy with another exhausting god complex’ (how many freaks are we going to meet that are obsessed with ‘evolving people’/‘being more than human’).

Sphene’s character has been assassinated this patch, and that’s saying something because it was already beaten to death by the terrible writing. Does the real one even have a personality? Beyond ‘princess archetype’? Hell I’d say the simulant (is that what they called it) feels more real than her lol.

Also remember the scions? Devs do; they so remember them! They’re here too. And then not. I guess some people are just so busy they frequently show up and then like, cease to exist.

Review: 3/10 electropes, I haven’t done recollection yet either so I’m absolutely not at a point yet where I should be commentating. But here I am.

[Cleretic]

Being super woke here lol but am I the only one who finds it extremely problematic that basically the antagonist was just a man’s puppet the entire time? God forbid a woman (AI) shows some [/i] agency [/i] lol. Has to be a man behind it…

I mean, that's also true of Nanamo. And Ysayle, Yotsuyu (several times over), Fordola, and kinda Meteion by a weird route. ...but it's also true of Gaius, Thordan, Ardbert, Varis, Vauthry, Zenos for a little bit, and Zoraal Ja in a rather exceptional case of nesting puppet antagonists. And that's all just in the MSQ.

FFXIV has always been a game about shadowy people pulling the strings behind the scenes; usually, it's the same guys every single time (and you might have noticed people are trying to claim it's ALSO those guys here, too). I think it's absolutely fair to call out misogyny when you see it, but it's helpful to step back and see the whole picture when you can, and in this case you're really just calling out one instance of something the game's done to both genders, and in fact might have done to men more often.

Believe me, if you want to 'be super woke' and call out the game for misogyny, you can write essays' worth of callouts against ARR and HW.

[Connor]

Believe me, if you want to 'be super woke' and call out the game for misogyny, you can write essays' worth of callouts against ARR and HW.

Oh trust me I was there for all of them; Minfilia’s character was literally reduced to ‘mother(crystal)’ before being ‘mother’ was even a thing! An upgrade from ‘quest mouthpiece’, I suppose. Pray return to the waking sands…

And to clarify, I’m not calling out what I perceive to be blatant or intentional misogyny. Just that it kinda came off as such in my eyes - like, a woman can only be ‘villainous’ if it’s related to a man sort of thing. One of those inadvertent implication sort of things.

And naturally I will grant that on reflection it’s pretty much just ‘a fixed event in every ffxiv storyline’ that the antagonist will have been unwittingly manipulated in some way by a higher power lol. Maybe that’s why it bothered me though? Like, ‘oh they’re doing this again, really?’

[Cilia]

And how does Calyx even know about not only the reflections, but how did he know that his reflection is the 9th? My bet is that he somehow captured an Ascian and gain the intel about the source and the reflection. I can't think of any on how he would know. And do not forget that he look really young and the Endless didn't exist until Otis volunteered to be experimented when he was an old man. So we can't be sure if Calyx an Endless or if he learn how to life without a body like the Ascian.

We really don't know how he learned about the dimensional state of the world, but there are a great many possibilities as to how Calyx learned, but if we're going down the Ascian route (viable; a few of the sundered ones are still floating around and unaccounted for) I think it's more plausible one of them just told Calyx for whatever reason.

... [L]ike, a woman can only be ‘villainous’ if it’s related to a man sort of thing.

... And naturally I will grant that on reflection it’s pretty much just ‘a fixed event in every ffxiv storyline’ that the antagonist will have been unwittingly manipulated in some way by a higher power lol.

Looks at Athena

Uhh... yeah, totally.

[Cleretic]

We really don't know how he learned about the dimensional state of the world, but there are a great many possibilities as to how Calyx learned, but if we're going down the Ascian route (viable; a few of the sundered ones are still floating around and unaccounted for) I think it's more plausible one of them just told Calyx for whatever reason.

I mean, all the Archfiends in 6.x generally knew the deal as far as the multiversal state of shards. It's not clear exactly how they learned, either, but Golbez knew Igeyorhm's name.

I think it does track that the Ascians were open about the truth in this respect when setting up the pieces. I can definitely see it from a perspective of 'setting up the enemy'; you divulge the truth that you're part of a multiverse and that your world is lesser to another, that this other world will stay and yours will go, it gets easy to get people angry at someone else and start getting violent in ways the Ascians benefited from.

Looks at Athena

Uhh... yeah, totally.

And yeah, Athena's basically the only time when the 'secret shadowy villain behind it all' was a woman; there was Sphene behind Zoraal Ja, but with Calyx behind her in turn it's a little muddy. (EDIT: And actually there's also a villain behind Athena, but that villain is a rock, which kinda doesn't hit the same.)

You could make an argument that Venat fits the same general shape as a story figure, but I feel like you can't rightly put her in the same lineup.

[fulminating]

So could zoraal ja be the product of parthenogenesis?

The allagans have created their prior blue mammools - a group of people known for equal parts enthusiasm and amorality in biological endeavours. Possibly reading between too many lines, but the blue scales could be a recessive trait in that particular type of mammool.

He has some anger issues and isn’t the brightest bulb in the shed, both traits associated with incest which this would essentially be.

There’s no mention of a mrs jaja, and a noticeable size difference between blessed and standard siblings that might make traditional methods impractical. Unless we read through too many lines again and determine he may have been involved with cahciua - symbolic bridging of continents and so on is quite common to cement a regent’s rule.

Zoraal’s child is the tiniest mammool ja you’ve ever seen; reduced litter size is another associated consequence.

The writers have historically taken inspiration from a song of ice and fire; who could look at zoraal and not instantly think “jaime Lannister”?

[Cilia]

(EDIT: And actually there's also a villain behind Athena, but that villain is a rock, which kinda doesn't hit the same.)

You could make an argument that Venat fits the same general shape as a story figure, but I feel like you can't rightly put her in the same lineup.

Except nope, it's pointedly stated that with or without the Heart of Sabik Athena would have still done what she did (or similar), it just gave her the means to speed up the timetable. Besides which, auracite (except for the white and synthetic flavors) traces back to Ultima, a similarly villainous female figure whose malevolence has nothing to do with men.

While there may be a shortage of female villains there is no shortage of strong female characters - all three starting city-state leaders are examples, and there are plenty more.

So could zoraal ja be the product of parthenogenesis?

Mamool Ja reproduction remains shrouded in secrets, what with their embryos apparently being kept in jars (Skydeep Cenote) and Teeshal Ja bearing Zoraal Ja's child without his knowledge.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say "no blue Hoobigo before Zoraal Ja" is a retcon, and either way it's not like they'd have known about Allagan experiments locked in Syrcus Tower all the way over in Tural where modern Mamool Ja hail from.

In other words I don't think so but we don't have enough information to make a clear determination one way or another.

[Dikatis]

And to clarify, I’m not calling out what I perceive to be blatant or intentional misogyny. Just that it kinda came off as such in my eyes - like, a woman can only be ‘villainous’ if it’s related to a man sort of thing. One of those inadvertent implication sort of things.

There's also Rosalinde in the Ninja quests, a ruthless pirate who hires the male Garlean operative Redway to help her steal the priceless artifacts of the Yatsuragi clan and beheads him when he tries to run away when he fails. Or the Siren boss of Pharos Sirius who lured countless sailors to their deaths and was dangerous enough that Mistbeard led a genocidal purge of the creatures. The Dawntrail Tank and Healer role quests gave us Leophyne and Ellerete, a self-serving knight who terrorizes the Temple Knights out of spite and a psychopathic womanchild who tries to plunge Vylbrand into anarchy for the heck of it. Then there's Apyaahi, the moneyhating moron who rallied a terrorist organization together solely because she didn't want to have to pay for room and board.

It is true that FFXIV's female antagonists tend to be the subject of some kind of tragic backstory or abuse that motivates them, but it's definitely not all of them, with Athena being chief among them.

Mamool Ja reproduction remains shrouded in secrets, what with their embryos apparently being kept in jars (Skydeep Cenote) and Teeshal Ja bearing Zoraal Ja's child without his knowledge.

IIRC, the Mamool Ja don't keep their embryos in jars. Those urns are burial urns akin to the urns you'd keep the ashes of a stillborn baby in (though I doubt any of the Mamool Ja in Mamook would have the stomach to cremate their children's bodies by the time of the story because of how much grief they were in).

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say "no blue Hoobigo before Zoraal Ja" is a retcon, and either way it's not like they'd have known about Allagan experiments locked in Syrcus Tower all the way over in Tural where modern Mamool Ja hail from.

They reuse the Mamool Ja model but it's not impossible for Allagan experiments to have produced a similar lizard-man type creature. They did create the Ixal after all. It's weird to write this one-off as a retcon when there's no instance of a blue Hoobigo existing outside of creatures that are explicitly not called Mamool Ja reusing their models. It's like calling bees a type of hornet when they use the same model in-game.

Parthenogenesis is kind of a leap given that Mamool Ja clearly have the typical male-female mother-father nuclear family structure. If it were really how they reproduced, Zoraal Ja wouldn't be surprised at the existence of Gulool Ja.

[fulminating]

Two down two up does seem to be the standard family structure in mamools, but as with real creatures parthenogenesis wouldn’t have to be the exclusive option. Language describing zoraal - “the miracle” - is also associated with virgin birth* in reality. As I remember which might not be entirely accurate, the dead baby urns were full of infants that didn’t hatch properly from their eggs among other issues; indicating they like sahagin and potentially au ra grow from a cluster of eggs allowing us to draw some reasonable inferences based on real creatures.

*Galool ja ja may not actually be a virgin