SE: Please tone it down a hair

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

*tries to cover up this thread before those three awake~~~oooh shoot it's too late!!!*
*petrified by stare before being smashed by a raging fluffy and an unidentified bipedal creature*

One of them is already in the office. Eeep!

[Zaaku]

*tries to cover up this thread before those three awake~~~oooh shoot it's too late!!!*
*petrified by stare before being smashed by a raging fluffy and an unidentified bipedal creature*

One of them is already in the office. Eeep!

REALITY HOPPER, TELL US WHAT DID YOU SEE IN YOUR REALM? HOW DID YOU GET HERE?

[Rydin]

That depends on the goal of the text. In FFXIV's case, the dialogue is not meant to be art, but to be an expression of life. Life is full of meaningless 5+ paragraph conversations. You hear them every day, you even make them yourself. These conversations are often not designed to invoke enlightenment upon your listeners, but rather talk for the sake of talking; after all, talking is fun. If Eorzea is, indeed, supposed to be a world full of life and character, it would make sense for there to be plenty of meaningless conversation and lots of blather. No one is forcing you to read it all, you can easily just pick out the important nuggets and tune the rest out...often like what we do in real life. Its supposed to be entertaining, not a literary masterpiece. I find it entertaining, as do others who enjoy reading for the sake of reading. Obviously you do not enjoy reading purely for the sake of reading, so please feel free to /ignore what Eorzeans have to say. This does not translate into "this crap needs to be revisited," as there are plenty who like the extra touch and extra effort to bring a world to life.

Yea.. but in real life no EVERYONE talks like that... the entire world isn't so verbose

[Lux_Rayna]

Yea.. but in real life no EVERYONE talks like that... the entire world isn't so verbose

Not every npc in eorzea is verbose either. I know I've randomly talked to quite a few of them. Quest npcs are verbose, but they should be. You better have a really good damn reason why you need me to go to x place to do y amount of things instead of you just doing it yourself. But really verbosity is a trait of Eorzeans, even if not all of them are like that. It is what makes Eorzeans who they are, despite being from entirely different places and belonging to different races. Course if you hate Eorzeans for their verbosity, so be it, but thats what makes Eorzeans who they are. Love it or hate it, it is a quality of the game that really brings the place to life. Just look at all the discussion it spawned!

[Rydin]

Not every npc in eorzea is verbose either. I know I've randomly talked to quite a few of them. Quest npcs are verbose, but they should be. You better have a really good damn reason why you need me to go to x place to do y amount of things instead of you just doing it yourself. But really verbosity is a trait of Eorzeans, even if not all of them are like that. It is what makes Eorzeans who they are, despite being from entirely different places and belonging to different races. Course if you hate Eorzeans for their verbosity, so be it, but thats what makes Eorzeans who they are. Love it or hate it, it is a quality of the game that really brings the place to life. Just look at all the discussion it spawned!

But thats the thing... many of them aren't even clear on the quest specifics....
If the journal didn't have any words or a journal map... would you EVER know where to go or what the hell was going on?

[Lux_Rayna]

But thats the thing... many of them aren't even clear on the quest specifics....
If the journal didn't have any words or a journal map... would you EVER know where to go or what the hell was going on?

When I pay attention yes, but you'd have to read pretty closely in order to get the message, and some quest npcs don't give a clear message at all. In that case, they might need to be redesigned to give quest specifics without the use of a journal if it bothers you that much. This would, of course, add an additional paragraph. I'm quite certain you do not want more text lol.

[Rydin]

When I pay attention yes, but you'd have to read pretty closely in order to get the message, and some quest npcs don't give a clear message at all. In that case, they might need to be redesigned to give quest specifics without the use of a journal if it bothers you that much. This would, of course, add an additional paragraph. I'm quite certain you do not want more text lol.

Do you not see the issue here? You're saying the quest NPCs talk a lot because they have to be specific about what you have to do... But if they actually told you what was required of you (As a normal quest NPC should) it would add yet ANOTHER paragraph of text....

What is it going to take for you to admit that the NPCs in this game use a lot of words but "ain't sayin nothin'"

[Alhanelem]

Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn is a stupid name.

Akira Tenshi is a stupid name.

As someone once said, "what's in a name?"

So it's unpronounceable. Big deal.

I bet if you told that to her face, she'd beat you up and throw you in the ocean. ;p

[Lux_Rayna]

Do you not see the issue here? You're saying the quest NPCs talk a lot because they have to be specific about what you have to do... But if they actually told you what was required of you (As a normal quest NPC should) it would add yet ANOTHER paragraph of text....

That is not what I said at all. I said quest npcs talk a lot because a quest npc *should* talk a lot to explain why you need to do anything. And all quest npcs I have ever talked to explain why I am doing what I am doing. Do they say all the particulars of the task? No. They don't really need to, and if you feel like they need to, you'll need to add more text which you don't want to read. The point is quest npcs give you background on a problem, why its a problem, and why they want *you* to deal with the problem. I think thats great. I dont need them to tell me exactly on the map where I am going, what I will be fighting, how many of x item i need to collect..etc etc etc because we have quest journals for that. Would it be great if I could get all that from them? I guess. I dont think its necessary, but I wouldnt mind it at all.

What is it going to take for you to admit that the NPCs in this game use a lot of words but "ain't sayin nothin'"

Idk if you've forgotten our conversation but I've already admitted it. Like I said, life is full of meaningless and verbose blather, and the goal of a game is to bring a world to life...not impart enlightenment on your person.

[Asiaine]

Hello all.

Loving this thread so far.. Seems to be full of good points/counterpoints, discussions, and almost no-flaming! Lovely!

I think so far there are at least three main points being brought up in this thread:


The skill level of the language
There have been discussions on both sides, suggesting that the level of the language could be brought down a bit to keep it simpler, and easier to digest. Whereas others believe it should be kept at a higher level, with some references to 'college level' english being mentioned.

Personally, I would prefer if the vocabulary was not brought down, nor were the nuances of sentence strutures kept from being sophisticated so as to appeal to wider audiences. In addition, SE seems to cater to critical situations by presenting 'plaintext' statements in off-colour when it relates directly to game mechanics.




The length/quality of the text passages
This is a touchy point. Whereas I can appreciate wanting to have nice long discussions to create 'atmosphere' it does not always meet up to this expectation. They say the key to the good joke is delivery. The way the passages are delivered are not at the right times. Often it is when everyone is in a hurry (and can not stop to enjoy the passage) or when it is unexpected (and they were not in the mood for the passage of text).

This is coupled with the great distribution of key plots of stories over a long period of time. All but the most fanatic devout would be able to remember a story line distributed piecemeal over the course of 3-6 months (about how long it may take a casual player to go through the main story line and the GC story line).


Personall, I do not have a problem with the length of the messages, although I would agree that several of the game texts could be 'punched up' a bit to make for more interesting reading (sorry SE ; ; ). For me, the biggest issue is the small piecemeal approach.

If SE adopted more of a 'chapter' based approach, where there is only small amount of story distributed along the way with a big chapter-ending scene that ties everything together and really delivers home what is going on. Then that would be good.

This could also be coupled with more detailed information in the Journal than is presented at quest time. I think FFXIII may have done something similiar with their journal/quest pages.




Accents
I'm sorry... I love San D'Oria... I choose to come to Limsa Lominsa since it reminded me of it... but those accents... really.. it MAY work if it was voiced, but trying to read it (especially when it is littered with tidbits of vulgarity/slang/profanity that not everyone instantly recognizes) made it so difficult to read that I actually joined the Ul'Dah GC instead of Limsa Lominsa's in fear of not being able to understand what they are trying to tell me.

A few words here and there for flavour can always be thrown in, yes. But when there are more contractions and apostrophes than letters, I need to borrow a magic decoder ring to figure out what is going on ^^;



Moving forward, what I would suggest to SE is:
1 -- Ease up on the accents a fair bit. Not completely, but a fair bit.
2 -- Implement MUCH bigger chapter-end cutscenes with deeper explanation and more information in the journals lore wise.
3 -- Do not ease up on the reading skill level -- its' fine.