zoning out/center extreme focus

[Astronis]

Your not understanding w hat I'm saying lol, Your all fixation on one thing and if I was talking about DIFFICULTY RATHER IT HARD OR easy that would have a place (which is a different conversation altogether)

You want jobs to be engaging even while you're beating up on a dummy, right? So that fight design is something added on top and jobs are always engaging and fun. What games have you played that have that kind of gameplay, out of curiosity?

[Voryn]

"learning" is a strong word it takes 2 YouTube videos and like 3 runs to get your body used to it, there is 0 learning involved just adjusting your body to remember the patterns lol physically.

the only job right now you can even consider somewhat mentally engaging is ninja with the madras.

Asking for context:
-Which “high end” content (extreme, savage, ultimate) have you spent time with?
-Which jobs have you looked up rotations for and tried them at level cap either in a raid or against a training dummy?

Nearly every dot has been removed at this point or in tanks cased locked behind a buff so you really can't keep it up anymore so you dont have even think it just hit it when its not grayed out

This is wrong for GNB once you’re actually trying to do a lot of damage and then the order that abilities are used matters and sometimes has to be adjusted based on the situation. On the other hand Paladin rarely as long as they’re pressed during Fight or Flight. Guess which of the two I’m actually willing to play lol.

[Bubblesong]

You want jobs to be engaging even while you're beating up on a dummy, right? So that fight design is something added on top and jobs are always engaging and fun. What games have you played that have that kind of gameplay, out of curiosity?

thats not what I'm saying "encounters matter to a point its something to over come"


... let me put to you in simple terms since you cant follow me...


Lets say we are sitting facing one another in real life infront of us is a board, we are playing chess togeather If I move the knight, you will look at how i moved and try to figure out the best strategy to take me out of the game, to kill my king in the game of chess following so far?

Okay if you are you should realize that every move you make I will have to think of a counter move in order to prevent you from killing my king and checkmating me.

This is why encounters (currently) do not matter the AI and or the devs do not want them to truely matter, their is only one set of motions a boss will ever use no matter where it is it will always use the same set pattern every time you encounter that enemy, that enemy has no reasoning and logic skills to counter the moves you make thus nothing you do will truely matter to that encounter, you can dps it to kill faster but that is all you can do, Esuna doesn't work on 99% of debuffs so that's pointless, stuns don't work on 99% of attacks. At the end of the day currently in every encounter your just fighting a real dummy and moving to a set pattern at higher levels and in different content the speed of those moves changes and reshapes but at the core every fight in the game funcations the same, because either the AI they are using for the fights sucks badly or they want it to suck badly.


Encoutners don't matter because once you see it one time it becomes a set motion that your muscles are building memory for, they will always act the same no matter what your party does no matter what time of day or what jobs your playing that fight encounter will always follow the same dance routine like a ballet on stage it will never change for that fight, then comes along a diffrent ballet that will also never change forever and ever and ever, without a AI that allows an encounter to reshape its attacks movements and thought process to counter the party make up and can change on whim anytime any were it will never matter

[Astronis]

thats not what I'm saying "encounters matter to a point its something to over come"

I'm seeing you avoid answer questions that would pin anything down in any manner that could be acted on, so, I'll leave you to it and hope you find something else to play.

[Astronis]

100% done, not putting up with any more insults.

[Valence]

100% done, not putting up with any more insults.

I have legit troubles to follow what your point actually was, but what the OP is replying to you (and I hope I got it right) is that the game doesn't challenge their intelligence the way they would like it did. It challenges motor and memory skills, which they find utterly boring (and I kind of agree, but that's a matter of tastes really). It doesn't challenge agency much, doesn't offer meaningful choices, doesn't engage intelligence, smart decisions, tactics, etc.

[Voryn]

My best understanding of the situation so far is:
-OP wants things to mentally keep track of or think about, so that they use awareness or decision making instead of just muscle memory or motor skills. They want something that actually occupies their conscious brain
-They say that this isn’t in the game, that jobs are just about hitting the glowy button, and harder content is just about motor skill and muscle memory rather than needing any attention to what’s happening
-I ask them which jobs they play and if they’ve really looked into how the rotations work and what type content they do, since many jobs ask players to keep track of things other than hitting the glowing button, and so much high end content asks players to actively pay attention to which versions of mechanics are being done
-They say content “difficulty” doesn’t matter because the only things pve content asks for are motor skills and muscle memory, and it doesn’t require any mental engagement while doing it other than remembering prime numbers and what protons and electrons are

My takeaways are:
-They either only play jobs at a very surface level, or at low level, or (if their Lodestone is attached to their main) only have one or the simplest jobs in the game at max level (PLD) with WHM at 90 and everything else below 60
-They haven’t done high end content (looks like they finally clarified that), so maybe their understanding of it comes from seeing complaints about the memorization and taking them literally
-The result is that their time with pve so far is just playing especially simple jobs in especially simple content, and their assumption is that content doesn’t get harder in a way that gets less conceptually simple or ever really asks for a player’s awareness to be exercised

Unfortunately since my impression is “OP doesn’t know what they’re talking about, they keep complaining people who disagree don’t understand, and are generally not actually answering questions to clarify things but just reasserting their opinions,” I’m done with this conversation as well and won’t bother responding further. Even if I completely agree with hating Paladin, about casual difficulty content, about low level jobs, and about how much of the game involves playing low level jobs in casual content.

Ordinarily I’d suggest if someone is interested in this game and wants more engagement that they try learning the rotation of more engaging jobs, try high end content for themselves and see if they enjoy it, and just pass on pve content if they don’t. But with OP’s attitude I imagine cooperative group activities aren’t the best idea, and they’re already seemingly certain that jobs are just about pressing the glowy buttons, and that players just memorize harder encounters and then don’t need to look at the screen any more or pay attention.

[Bubblesong]

Y

My best ,” I’m done with this conversation as well and won’t bother responding further. Even if I completely agree with hating Paladin, about casual difficulty content, about low

You might have an argument if this was ny only account lol, it's not I have many jobs maxed and I've played through every expansion arr pre hw hw pre stormblood etc, the only one you can argue I didn't play through completely is end walker lol, you would have realized that if you read a thing I said lol in the past many jobs had postionsks tp/mp mattered so did keeping up dots, protect etc

The truth is I know everything about the game because I've seen it all, you remember using leeches on sch , or about fracture on warrior or how to use flash ob Paladin


Wanna go into things that don't matter, then how about this what was Foe requirm and what was the purpose of that song? [I know answer] do you

[Astronis]

I have legit troubles to follow what your point actually was, but what the OP is replying to you (and I hope I got it right) is that the game doesn't challenge their intelligence the way they would like it did. It challenges motor and memory skills, which they find utterly boring (and I kind of agree, but that's a matter of tastes really). It doesn't challenge agency much, doesn't offer meaningful choices, doesn't engage intelligence, smart decisions, tactics, etc.

Since it looks like the posts have been removed, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see the actual insults and abuse I'm no longer willing to put up with. All else is moot now.

[Valence]

Since it looks like the posts have been removed, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see the actual insults and abuse I'm no longer willing to put up with. All else is moot now.

I've seen it and that was not the point I was addressing, but okay I guess. Still no clue what your point was about however. Legitimately, I didn't understand, and that's why I asked if you could elaborate.