Prog skipping/lying is going wild this tier.

[Rychu]

I was in PF yesterday trying to join any Beckon Moonlight prog for M8S. Nothing was up around my prog point so I joined an Adds clean up party. Figured it would be nice to help some people catch up to my prog point.

We had a dancer that just could not do Decay if the wolves were going CCW, pretty sure they assumed the wolves always went CW. Wipe after wipe, no one wanted to say anything about it.

After a full hour of prog, we saw adds three times. On the third add phase, we get through and then everyone immediately dies to Terrestrial Rage. I'm thinking "cool, finally we got through adds. now hopefully we can get to the end of phase 1". Nope. That same Dancer immediately left.

I was upset so I did passport check them. The furthest they got before our PF was Decay, not even adds. Remember it was an Adds clean up party. The time of 7 people got wasted so that one person could benefit from it.

But the thing is, no one said anything. Not even me. Because everyone is terrified at their words being interpreted as harassment and boom all of a sudden you catch a ban. There is nothing to lose when you lie.

[Absurdity]

But the thing is, no one said anything. Not even me. Because everyone is terrified at their words being interpreted as harassment and boom all of a sudden you catch a ban. There is nothing to lose when you lie.

The unfortunate reality nowadays is that in situations like this the party leader has to go out and simply kick them without a word while hoping the party doesn't fall apart right after.

The person in question ends up most likely confused and doesn't learn anything, but as you said, everyone probably knows what the problem is but nobody wants to open themselves up to a potential report. So this is the only solution to not waste everyone's time.

[Kohashi]

Honestly, if you played or remember stormblood fight design, it's the perfect mix of stress-ish free raiding while still being challenging. As a bonus, you can have absolutely wild recoveries that feel absolutely amazing to pull off in that style of raid design. And you can still do it while having hello world, a mechanic substantially harder than TOP's hello world, and feels much more satisfying even on casters.

While I did catch the original Ivalice, I was not raiding back then, at least not in FF14. I was an end-game raider in TERA and BnS..lol. I did do, however, some MINE fights, but it's not the exact Vanilla experience from back then.

Difficulty-wise, so far, I think this tier is nice. Kind of MID, not too easy, not too difficult, not a lot of body checks. I don't think m5s or m6s had any hardcore body checks.

[Daralii]

While I did catch the original Ivalice, I was not raiding back then, at least not in FF14. I was an end-game raider in TERA and BnS..lol. I did do, however, some MINE fights, but it's not the exact Vanilla experience from back then.

Difficulty-wise, so far, I think this tier is nice. Kind of MID, not too easy, not too difficult, not a lot of body checks. I don't think m5s or m6s had any hardcore body checks.

6 is the insurmountable wall for a lot of people because it requires skills they probably haven't used in savage since HW or SB, namely add management and bursting down priority targets that aren't the boss.

[Taranok]

6 is the insurmountable wall for a lot of people because it requires skills they probably haven't used in savage since HW or SB, namely add management and bursting down priority targets that aren't the boss.

It's also, unironically, overtuned. It feels like a gear check and ties into a phrase I've used off and on over the years. "The devs habitually overestimate the playerbase's average competency." Mind you, I'm a well above average player on most jobs, and finding the right group is a nightmare because things as basic as tab targeting the right enemy is a nightmare in this game, and the right enemy is mandatory to clear it.

I'm pretty sure adds phase from a design perspective is harder than any ult I've done, which includes UCOB through DSR + up to phase 5 in TOP. I really shouldn't be comparing savage design to ultimates and say savage is harder, but dawntrail has had a lot of garbage fight design where everything is 1 or 2 difficulty steps above where it was in prior expansions. Which includes ultimate design showing up even in EX4 fights, players just don't recognize it as ultimate design because there's a cheese mixed with boiling frog syndrome. Yes, I'm referring to bloom 6. If holy one-shot the player, bloom 6 would be right at home in DSR, if not harder than most DSR mechanics.

I remember adds phases from HW and SB, and none of them are remotely as bad as the trash design that is M6S.

[Voryn]

I was upset so I did passport check them. The furthest they got before our PF was Decay, not even adds. Remember it was an Adds clean up party. The time of 7 people got wasted so that one person could benefit from it.

But the thing is, no one said anything. Not even me. Because everyone is terrified at their words being interpreted as harassment and boom all of a sudden you catch a ban. There is nothing to lose when you lie.

Best you can do is say “tyfp” and leave once you realize there’s an obvious problem. I end up having to do that when it’s clear people either are really bad at mechanics that are before the prog point, or the party dies to Enrage without enough deaths and damage downs for it to make sense.

[Saraide]

The unfortunate reality nowadays is that in situations like this the party leader has to go out and simply kick them without a word while hoping the party doesn't fall apart right after.

The person in question ends up most likely confused and doesn't learn anything, but as you said, everyone probably knows what the problem is but nobody wants to open themselves up to a potential report. So this is the only solution to not waste everyone's time.

I feel like if someone joins a party well ahead of their prog point and then gets kicked it's a pretty clear message.

[Absurdity]

I feel like if someone joins a party well ahead of their prog point and then gets kicked it's a pretty clear message.

Yes and no, someone joining a party several mechanics ahead of what they've even seen will probably know why they got kicked.
But then you have people who can't even consistently do the two previous mechanics, but have technically seen the mechanic you're progressing once, so in their mind that is their prog point.

Both are completely sandbagging the group's progress but only one of them is technically lying.

[Zakuyia]

Then we need to also add elitism to the tos at this some point cause some you got some real nasty attitude in your pf description. XD so yeah elitism should be added to that list along with dodging.

[Gurgeh]

Yes and no, someone joining a party several mechanics ahead of what they've even seen will probably know why they got kicked.
But then you have people who can't even consistently do the two previous mechanics, but have technically seen the mechanic you're progressing once, so in their mind that is their prog point.

Both are completely sandbagging the group's progress but only one of them is technically lying.

A lot of this is caused by the fact that, while you don't want to encourage PF descriptions to be too long and prescriptive, they are just hopelessly too limitingly short at the moment. But hey, I expect its the perfect balance if you can use kanji. (I don't know if it does support kanji. But I wouldn't be surprised.)

But, as we all know. You can't seriously expect software to change. It's far more realistic to expect people and cultures to sublimely change. (irony)