Summoner needs a fix or a new reason to play it.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Usually im not the one which opens such Threads in particular if there are many of them already but i talked with a good friend and realized something really important.

Summoner lost the meaning to actually play the Job, there is besides the "i like summoner" point no reason to play this Class anymore.

Ress - Yes Summoner has a Ress but in a Prog Sitatuation RDM has just way more value

Damage - Compared to ShB the current Summoner is completly lacking on Damage, i mean im generally not the Fan of the whole "Range, Ress Tax" Philosophy but we are at a Point where the Damage matters.

Movement - You could argument that Summoner has free movement, but lets be real for a Second here and judge the Situation and the different Casters,

RDM can Move after every second Skill

Picto has Smudge and the ability to move huge distances after every Cast (Yea People say Picto has the less mobility but the Recast/Cast Time allows some huge Distance between each Casts) and can easly use Swift since its not needed for a Ress

Blm has Swift, Triplecast, Xenoglossy, Paradox, Fire 3, Despair, Thunder and can with the recent Changes really good slidecasting, BLM changed from standing turret to walking turret


So what has Summoner left? Nothing, through the "Egis" even many of his Skills have Pet Potency which means less Potency then actually standing on the description

There is really no reason anymore to bring a Summoner in your Group and thats something which is insane sad to see, because ShB Summoner was such a huge Powerhouse.

So please Square maybe its really time to consider removing the "Ress Tax" or giving Summoner a new Identity because in his current state he lacks everything.

[Carighan]

Summoner can actually do their burst combo when it comes up? Unlike RDM, in current fights?

[Rithy255]

I really don't want Current summoner to ever be "meta" as much as I think it should get some potency buffs, in endwalker primarily made red mage a pretty useless job despite actually having to worry about mobility.

I really hope summoner gets a good rework in 8.0 its current design while it may fit a "summoner" is just not fun.

[Supersnow845]

Summoner can actually do their burst combo when it comes up? Unlike RDM, in current fights?

To be fair SMN’s overtly restrictive combo forcing Demi drift was a problem in FRU that made it uniquely terrible it’s just savage doesn’t have enough downtime so they both have their downsides there

[HikariKurosawa]

I think the reason to play it should be the same as any other job: because you enjoy the fantasy of it. It's difficult dealing with FOTM players as a dev because if a job like SMN is too viable then everyone plays it for easy performance and they start to complain about the game being too easy or boring. That's part of capitalism and recognizing the weak will of the playerbase for what it is. It should be viable, but it's delicate due to most players "not caring" about what job they play as long as it is the best performing job.

Damage numbers and combat logs kinda ruin the game. All this stuff should be under the hood completely and health bars should just be without values or percentages. Base engagement with content on having sufficient ilvl and leave it at that. Destroy the parsing community.

[Milea]

Give it dots and tri-disaster + bane back and problem solved

actually egis too but now I cry for the ones we lost :'(

[Jeeqbit]

With how homogenized jobs are and how many we have now, the only reason to play a lot of jobs is because you like the aesthetic. Summoner isn't some special exception.

For myself, I can say the reason I didn't bother with Summoner this expansion is because it had a bit of bloat added to it (the 2 minute attack) and nothing new or interesting (literally another bahamut), while the other casters got actually new things.

[Wayfinder3]

I think too much of the rotation is forced on the GCD that leads to this problem, in order to fix this without doing a full rework, they'd have to basically pull a PCT and put all the damage into the burst phase and ensure SMN can land it for it to be good in fru. Overall, SMN could use a buff but it's positon relative to the melee and it's other casters is fair. it shouldn't do more damage and the other Casters who have to put in far more effort to do their rotations than this class does. So they gotta figure something out here.

[remiff]

I'm sorry, but the Summoner's foundation since its rework is simply not good.
Everything is based on the GCD, and no matter what improvements they make to the gameplay, if they don't drastically change how the current foundation works, the Summoner will never have appealing gameplay
—it will always feel completely rigid and soulless.

The Summoner needs a redesign of how the Demi summons are brought out, a redesign of their utility, and above all, the elemental summons bring nothing meaningful.
Ifrit is annoying to use and includes the only mandatory gap closer with a fast, forced activation, which is useless in 99.9% of the game.

Titan and Garuda are soulless, and the Demi summons are clearly the biggest joke they've given us since the Summoner became able to summon Bahamut.
Honestly, they need to be different, and many gameplay elements need fixing.

They shouldn't just toss a bunch of spices on this bland dish that is the Summoner—they need to completely remake this failed recipe from the ground up.

[Carighan]

I still stand by the idea that the underlying core is in fact more or less the best job they have right now, simply because it isn't the same base type of rote static rotation as all the other jobs are.

But it needs... well, content, basically. They created the structure (use minor summons to feed a demi summon, minors are different and you get to pick and optimize the order), but all they delivered was a demo implementation if I/T/G -> Bahamut/Phoenix for an internal meeting, and never did more than that. We got wish.com Bahamut later, granted. Wow. Much impress. So worth the time wasted on adding the animations for this weak reskin of the Bahamut we already had...

What should be done:

* Minors re-sorted into three types, taking some inspiration from the current ones. Red gem is slow casts, and should be highest DPS by a mile. Yellow gem is medium DPS and mobility. Green gem is lowest DPS but utility, could be mobile, but doesn't have to.
* Current minors re-balanced to fit this pattern.
* At least one new minor set added, ideally 2. Add one more every 1-2 expansions.
* Which set of minors you get is random after each major, but you know the moment you summon the major. They each work differently, albeit abiding by the gem-color-rules above. Some are AoE only, some have more casted abilities but +runspeed in return for mobility, some have slower GCDs, some faster. Some heal, some give group runspeed, lots of stuff, but you can't rely on it.
* ali express Bahamut removed.
* Bahamut and Phoenix are both options for each major cycle.
* Bahamut has casted spells of superior damage. But 2.0s cast each, so 0 weaving, 0 nothing. You're a turret caster, but for superior damage.
* Phoenix is instant casts, some group regen. It's main utility is now that for the next 60s, should the summoner die, they revive **instantly**, and game-mechanics wise in fact never died (just the animation). All buffs and stuff retained, no weakness. 1 charge. Casting Ressurection also consumes the charge, causing all targets in 10y to be resurrected on top of the main target (charge is spent only if extra rezzes happen). Basically, make the Phoenix bloody do what the Phoenix bloody does! This is final fantasy! Not "Oh we're WoW wannabe and everything lore has to fit the gameplay rules"! F*ck it! Phoenix! And from the ashes it was reborn!
* If summoning the same major multiple times in a row, each time it lasts 1 GCD shorter.

So the final gameplay loop is:

* Get a random set of 3 minors. Adapt to their gameplay-specific rules and optimize their order vs where in the current fight you are.
* After that, decide on a major. Can you stand still for the next 15s and just need damage? Bahamut! and hope nothing forces you to move. Do you need to move, or are things risky? Phoenix! Mobility, automatic self-rezz, AoE rezz.
* Repeat, with a new set of random 3 minors.

(edit)
Forgot one thing: To not waste the model, add temu Bahamut as a minion that has a special /kick emote to punt it into the sky.