What’s the point when BLM’s newfound success is PCT and SMN’s loss?

[Supersnow845]

I made a similar thread here recently but it kinda got off track because I wasn’t terribly clear on my post intention so I’ll be clearer here

BLM’s play rate has shot up with the changes, it’s now the third most played job in savage. The change is a massive success then right? Well is it? All they did was nerf PCT into being a wonky mess and make BLM easier AND stronger. So people moved from PCT (and SMN who is floundering) to BLM inflating its numbers. I can also point out that VPR’s numbers shot up this patch at the expense of NIN considering VPR’s ridiculous numbers are arguably worse than 7.1 PCT was

Can someone genuinely explain to me what square is hoping to achieve here? I get the idea behind “simplifying jobs makes them more accessible” even if I don’t agree with it but what does constantly making the recently reworked job the most powerful job to inflate its player numbers actually achieve. Like we all know if that in 7.3 they accidentally buff PCT back above BLM trying to fix its wonky muse potency that BLM’s population will crash and PCT’s will skyrocket again. The hat is actually being achieved in game

[ddwarbird]

I made a similar thread here recently but it kinda got off track because I wasn’t terribly clear on my post intention so I’ll be clearer here

BLM’s play rate has shot up with the changes, it’s now the third most played job in savage. The change is a massive success then right? Well is it? All they did was nerf PCT into being a wonky mess and make BLM easier AND stronger. So people moved from PCT (and SMN who is floundering) to BLM inflating its numbers. I can also point out that VPR’s numbers shot up this patch at the expense of NIN considering VPR’s ridiculous numbers are arguably worse than 7.1 PCT was

Can someone genuinely explain to me what square is hoping to achieve here? I get the idea behind “simplifying jobs makes them more accessible” even if I don’t agree with it but what does constantly making the recently reworked job the most powerful job to inflate its player numbers actually achieve. Like we all know if that in 7.3 they accidentally buff PCT back above BLM trying to fix its wonky muse potency that BLM’s population will crash and PCT’s will skyrocket again. The hat is actually being achieved in game

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Sage and Reaper overpowered when Endwalker came out? I mean that's how a lot of companies operate right? "Come back to the game, we have this ultra powerful class/character etc that we won't nerf till after the expansion is over to maximise profit". That is the problem with Pictomancer in a nutshell but its been the same issue for most of the new jobs they have added to the game?

I won't pretend to be super knowledgeable on this but I saw a graph that put Pictomancers DPS far far out ahead. I thought to myself then "I imagine its a sales gimmick, similar to how MOBA's release new characters in a deliberately broken state and then nerf them after a few months to maximise profit".

[Supersnow845]

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Sage and Reaper overpowered when Endwalker came out? I mean that's how a lot of companies operate right? "Come back to the game, we have this ultra powerful class/character etc that we won't nerf till after the expansion is over to maximise profit". That is the problem with Pictomancer in a nutshell but its been the same issue for most of the new jobs they have added to the game?

I won't pretend to be super knowledgeable on this but I saw a graph that put Pictomancers DPS far far out ahead. I thought to myself then "I imagine its a sales gimmick, similar to how MOBA's release new characters in a deliberately broken state and then nerf them after a few months to maximise profit".

SGE was incredibly weak relative to SCH at expansion launch (and still is) though that’s not really my point, my point is that if they simply change the job and make it overpowered then see its playerbase skyrocket did they actually achieve anything

[ddwarbird]

SGE was incredibly weak relative to SCH at expansion launch (and still is) though that’s not really my point, my point is that if they simply change the job and make it overpowered then see its playerbase skyrocket did they actually achieve anything

I agree with you and no, it doesn't really achieve anything. You are always going to have players that flip between what is "meta-relevant" instead of staying loyal to one job or class. However I dunno if they nerfed Pictomancer but I did see they had ridiculous DPS numbers at one stage and were outclassing almost every DPS in the game. I don't know if they still do or if Square nerfed them.

[Kohashi]

SGE was incredibly weak relative to SCH at expansion launch (and still is) though that’s not really my point, my point is that if they simply change the job and make it overpowered then see its playerbase skyrocket did they actually achieve anything

This is factually not true. Their potencies are very comparable; however, what sets Sch apart is the chain strategem in the same way AST has divination and cards when compared to WHM. It makes a lot more sense to have AST + Sch since they synergize so damn well with the 2 min burst meta that is happening.

For example, in m6s, AST + SGE is simply stupidly ahead compared to AST + SCH because of how they deal with the add phase.

Also, SGE is above SCH by a mile in older content and low cap like UWU, UCOB, even TEA. You can cheese so much lb in UWU with sge is not even funny..lol.

[Supersnow845]

This is factually not true. Their potencies are very comparable; however, what sets Sch apart is the chain strategem in the same way AST has divination and cards when compared to WHM. It makes a lot more sense to have AST + Sch since they synergize so damn well with the 2 min burst meta that is happening.

For example, in m6s, AST + SGE is simply stupidly ahead compared to AST + SCH because of how they deal with the add phase.

Also, SGE is above SCH by a mile in older content and low cap like UWU, UCOB, even TEA. You can cheese so much lb in UWU with sge is not even funny..lol.

Who said I was discussing damage potencies only

SCH pulls so far ahead because it’s healing kit is so much better than SGE’s

They had to buff SGE because it was getting locked out in DSR
But you are right that SCH sucks in M6

[Kohashi]

Who said I was discussing damage potencies only

SCH pulls so far ahead because it’s healing kit is so much better than SGE’s

They had to buff SGE because it was getting locked out in DSR

Please stop saying dumb shit like how SCH has more healing than SGE. it's so damn wrong on so many levels. SGE has a LOT more healing in their kit by a damn mile.
What sch has over sge is more mit spells and a guaranteed huge fat shield on demand thanks to Recitation. Normally, you don't even use recitation with deployment tactics since it's better to use it with Indo. It's the reason why SCH received seraphism, to fix some of the lack of healing SCH was having.

[Rithy255]

I'll be honest their attempts to hyper balance jobs by removing all friction and making them functionally similar has caused actual major imbalance.

When you boil down what jobs "bring to the table" it's damage and some ease of use, even for tanks and healers, the only exception to this is Red mage, so all attempts at making jobs easier and to not offer anything unique, so that people can "pick what they want" has sort of been for nothing, as you still get people just following whatever is meta.

We've ended up with bad job design with no uniqueness but it also being pretty unbalanced (especially when you look at jobs like SMN & MCH) for literally nothing, we've removed uniqueness from jobs to still complain about "x job isn't strong enough" now we have a bunch of other problems like some of the existing player bases being fed up with how stale jobs are, or loved by a small playerbase like black mage getting reworked into a mockery of what it used to be.

Not to say "blah blah blah something something old design was better" but the game should still be fun, sacrificing job design in the sake of balance will never be a "success" people will play whats new, whats meta and whats easiest in savage, this trend has always followed black mage right now is just "new" and the best caster by a mile damage wise.

[Supersnow845]

Please stop saying dumb shit like how SCH has more healing than SGE. it's so damn wrong on so many levels. SGE has a LOT more healing in their kit by a damn mile.
What sch has over sge is more mit spells and a guaranteed huge fat shield on demand thanks to Recitation. Normally, you don't even use recitation with deployment tactics since it's better to use it with Indo. It's the reason why SCH received seraphism, to fix some of the lack of healing SCH was having.

Healing=shields/mitigation

You don’t really think I meant pure healing did you. Like no need to be so aggressive. SCH dominates its units ability to bend mitigation plans around it

Regardless this wasn’t the point of my topic, if you just want to argue with me I’d rather not

[Wolwosh]

People laugh at MCH it now, but when it gets buffed(doubtful lol) to high heaven all of a sudden everyone will play it and say how they always loved it