What’s the point when BLM’s newfound success is PCT and SMN’s loss?

[Kohashi]

If 8.0 doesn't set up a clear path to how jobs are going to be played, then the random job rework cycle will simply never end and stay adjusted to either the current content or the whims of the developers.

but would you rather have jobs that never get changed for years and years and become extremely static/stale in their gameplay?

For me, at least, this odd cycle just makes me want to rediscover and see how it works.

[Supersnow845]

but would you rather have jobs that never get changed for years and years and become extremely static/stale in their gameplay?

For me, at least, this odd cycle just makes me want to rediscover and see how it works.

That’s a very fair point. honestly I think that’s where encounter design comes into play. I think that changing and unique encounter design should be the special sauce to the mostly static jobs that you come to rely on and understand but I can understand viewing it the other way around. That every rework is basically a chance to discover a “new” job all over again

[NaoSen]

Dont try and apply logic to SE, rather try and work with corporate metrics, player feelings and profit.

They are risk averse and don't know how to deal with player feedback.
There is no PTR for Job changes, SE goes and decides internally how the rest of the world will be playing their job and balances around it instead of seeing what players would do. When it doesn't work out ? Tough go play a new job.

Then there is the "Play it safe" culture.
This reflected in their new content, current Eureka proved extremely popular so they essentially copied it with some streamlining and taking one thing from bozja. As a person who loves Eureka this is great for me, but its SE playing safe on what works, a small tweak on an existing feature.
Cosmic Exploration is Ishgard Restoration 2.0 (I missed the OG Ishgard Restoration so am looking forward to it)
Raids ? They literally dumbed down the jobs for players so that players were not "Overwhelmed" with the new raids, we get to wait till 8.0 for the job change (Not holding my breath)

I am sure they think the BLM change was a huge success and in the numbers game it was but do they care how many left BLM ? Probably not.

I'm relatively unaffected by 7.2 , PCT hadnt become my identity, the content I like is coming in and I am torn between playing BLM and MNK, this doesnt prevent me from seeing how they do it though.

[Kohashi]

That’s a very fair point. honestly I think that’s where encounter design comes into play. I think that changing and unique encounter design should be the special sauce to the mostly static jobs that you come to rely on and understand but I can understand viewing it the other way around. That every rework is basically a chance to discover a “new” job all over again

I mean, perhaps, but even so, the job will still eventually become stale. It is not easy keeping it fresh but for all its worth I don't want them to stop. Some changes might be bad, some good... we shall see where it takes us.

If there is one thing I hope they change is their stupid ass code which is obnoxiously depreciated and limiting a lot on all fronts.

[Aco505]

but would you rather have jobs that never get changed for years and years and become extremely static/stale in their gameplay?

For me, at least, this odd cycle just makes me want to rediscover and see how it works.

If the reworks bring a breath of fresh air and proper skill floor and ceilings, then by all means. If the rework is going to just remove for the sake of it to then not build anything upon it... what's the point?

But I do agree, wondering which new stuff you can get can be exciting.

[Jeeqbit]

Whenever square does reworks on classes they do them because they are unpopular by and large.

I don't really agree. For BRD and MCH, I agree that their reworks were due to their lack of popularity, but this lack of popularity stemmed from a fundamental problem:

• BRD had cast times added which upset the BRD population and it was obvious the BRD population had been decimated by this.
• MCH was seen as "complicated to figure out" (SE said this) and was obviously less exciting than BRD through Stormblood, animation-wise, except in heat mode, so they made it about machines so they could have varied animations that aren't just gun shots.

They did not rework BLM in a big way for most of the game's history despite often being near the bottom of the most-to-least used list. Because as everyone knows, it was the job people played when they wanted to challenge themselves rather than what they played after a busy work day where they wanted to play something braindead. Especially when other jobs can do good damage for much less brainpower.

They did not rework MNK for years in a significant way. It took until, I think mid-ShB?, to remove GL and then overhaul it completely. And I think it was more due to the difficulty than anything else, because GL could expire while doing mechanics (this change was happening to all jobs at that time remember). I've never seen a lot of MNKs. Fists just don't appeal to most players when choosing a job and nothing they do seems to change that. (The sad thing is I think both iterations of MNK have been fun for me.)

I don't think it was their justification for 6.0 SMN either. Although there have been periods where SMN isn't played as much, I think their reasoning was the complaints from players that it was "too busy and janky and hard to play". And the rotation had grown so long that they couldn't sustain making it even longer for additional summons in expansions. Which is how we came to this point - where you summon things really quickly back-to-back.

I don't know about AST being unplayed. It's a healer, ultimately, so not a huge amount of choice like there is for DPS. 7.0 AST they brought back card variety because people asked for it. They also made the cards slower after 5.0 release because it was too busy juggling cards (I found this fun but some players didn't). None of this strikes me as due to popularity. The main issue is they claimed 50% of players didn't like the RNG on AST... if anyone reading this is one of that 50% would appreciate saying that you like the job being the same all the time.

I simply do not see where this job design is going since the only thing they ever seem to base it on is how popular a job is

There is just one thing they have been trying to do since Stormblood release and that's "reduce stress" for casual players:

• The addition of job gauges so they don't have to track status effects.
• Reduction of positionals and their contribution.
• Keep-up timers being removed.
• Time-sensitive actions being timeless or having 30 seconds to continue combos instead of 3, and not being able to interrupt them usually.
• Highlighting what to press next (ie. on BLM).
• Making buffs not overwrite other buffs (like Flourish on DNC).
• Removal of stance dancing on tanks and enmity combos as a concept.

All of that sort of stuff is so your average MSQ-only player that returns to the game after 4 years with a returner flower icon, can play a job and play it mostly right or at least not be significantly punished damage-wise, and that's so obviously their goal.

[PyurBlue]

but would you rather have jobs that never get changed for years and years and become extremely static/stale in their gameplay?

I don't see a problem with that if jobs are interesting. Quite a few have lost a lot of defining features and I'd absolutely go back to older versions of those jobs if I could, BLM being the latest on that list. Encounter design is where I think static gameplay is a bigger problem. My preference is for deep and well defined jobs in dynamic and varied situations, which unfortunately for me is almost exactly the opposite of this game's direction.

[Kishin12345]

The blm changes were very calculated. They've seen that the playrate of blm was very low, so they made it more accessible but to truly make it played more they had to get rid of picto. I mean picto stayed the way it was for almost 10 months lol! And suddenly they realize that they need to do something? On the way even destroy picto's gameplay loop...
I still jope they buff picto and restore the rotation to how it was before. If you want to play optimally you want to slide cast as much as possible rather than use your mobility tools. That is just wrong in itself. They joy came from finding the time to paint your muses during mechanics. Also blm is a selfish job and still it puts out the highest rdps now. Picto is a buff job and they should excell at rdps but picto rdps fell quite a lot. Picto still shouldnt be behind all melees, if it is supposed to rival blm then it must be in the top 4 rdps jobs now otherwise you would just bring a blm. It is quite easy for the devs to manipulate playrates at this point. Just buff the jobs that are played the least, make them more accessible and easy to play and playrate goes up. It's almost like with gacha games. The new stuff is always broken and replaces the old stuff.

[Daralii]

The blm changes were very calculated. They've seen that the playrate of blm was very low, so they made it more accessible but to truly make it played more they had to get rid of picto. I mean picto stayed the way it was for almost 10 months lol! And suddenly they realize that they need to do something? On the way even destroy picto's gameplay loop...
I still jope they buff picto and restore the rotation to how it was before. If you want to play optimally you want to slide cast as much as possible rather than use your mobility tools. That is just wrong in itself. They joy came from finding the time to paint your muses during mechanics. Also blm is a selfish job and still it puts out the highest rdps now. Picto is a buff job and they should excell at rdps but picto rdps fell quite a lot. Picto still shouldnt be behind all melees, if it is supposed to rival blm then it must be in the top 4 rdps jobs now otherwise you would just bring a blm. It is quite easy for the devs to manipulate playrates at this point. Just buff the jobs that are played the least, make them more accessible and easy to play and playrate goes up. It's almost like with gacha games. The new stuff is always broken and replaces the old stuff.

They really couldn't decide what PCT's identity in a group was. Their statements before early access said that it would be a selfish DPS like BLM but easier and with more mobility, but then it released in the form that it did, and now BLM is basically what it was stated to be.

[Milea]

there will always be one that outshines and one that is bottom tier

that is why job homogenization is bad, because then there is no reason to play but the top performing one as they are too samey

when jobs are distinct then even if they are bottom you play them for their unique style