Please reduce tank healing power by a lot

[Rithy255]

it does and you have my respect there for such because well I do agree with you about paladin tho I still with they could have more support to like the old rpg paladin xx)

Shame I can't be a melee based support/healer in this game, one of the things that annoy me about this game. Maybe advocating tanks to be more supportive and less giga tank unstoppable gods may come across as odd to some people, but I really like the idea of tanks being a party "protector" type of role.

Paladin unironically is most enjoyable when your keeping people up alive and using your cooldowns not just selfishly imo. Shame that often theirs just not really a need for that when nothing is going wrong which is 80% of the time

[ThorinG]

No thanks I want to play paladin not mitigation bot.

tanks need to go down in Self survivability and not go down in party utility and protection.

As PLD you still have Passage, intervention, Veil (even without the healing factor), Cover, and clemency to heal single targets.

I believe my 1st suggestion of transferring the Healing effects from the Short Mits to the (90 sec.) Mits will help with balancing the Self survivability of tanks.

[Rithy255]

As PLD you still have Passage, intervention, Veil (even without the healing factor), Cover, and clemency to heal single targets.

I believe my 1st suggestion of transferring the Healing effects from the Short Mits to the (90 sec.) Mits will help with balancing the Self survivability of tanks.

The healing factor that should be taken out of paladin its magic attacks I'm fine with losing that because It's just passive and comes with me doing my rotation/burst, the only change I'd make to short mits (outside of bloodwhetting, which would get bigger changes), would be to change it to a flat 20% for 8s instead of two stacked mitigation effects. The regen is also the only thing that really makes Holy sheltron/intervention different from HOC.

The real issue for most tanks is their Self survivability, so Ideally you would tone down mitigation and some self healing aspects, short mits keeping some sustain isn't really a massive issue if you tone down other aspects of the kits in general.

The Ideal place would be to give tanks less self independence but keep it's importance and utility on the team, even giving tanks instances where you should be using target mits (And skills like cover) to protect a dps/healer, while being less immortal in solo situations

Veils small healing isn't really ridiculous either it's hardly 10% of a allies health, shake it off regen can be removed tho idm its small burst heal.

[Derio]

Is it even reasonable to do so now? That would be such a drastic change. I do think that tank healing is bloated, and it really shows in normal content like dungeons and normal trials.

This wouldnt be as much as a problem if healers had actual dps kits like other MMOs

[AmiableApkallu]

Maybe advocating tanks to be more supportive and less giga tank unstoppable gods may come across as odd to some people, but I really like the idea of tanks being a party "protector" type of role.

In my view, tanks "protect" the party by primarily by redirecting damage to themselves. The problem is that this has all but been trivialized in FFXIV. It's either:

• LOL, ~Tank Stance~, or
• Unavoidable raid wide damage.

There is no real gameplay for tanks because there are few to no meaningful opportunities to demonstrate skill at redirecting damage before it hits a party member.

Paladin unironically is most enjoyable when your keeping people up alive and using your cooldowns not just selfishly imo. Shame that often there is just not really a need for that when nothing is going wrong which is 80% of the time.

And unironically, this is more or less the same for healer gameplay. Fun when things are going wrong. Less fun when everything goes according to plan.

I feel like this binary thing where damage is either 100% unavoidable or 100% avoidable is a plague on both tanks and healers in this game.

[Rithy255]

In my view, tanks "protect" the party by primarily by redirecting damage to themselves. The problem is that this has all but been trivialized in FFXIV. It's either:

• LOL, ~Tank Stance~, or
• Unavoidable raid wide damage.

There is no real gameplay for tanks because there are few to no meaningful opportunities to demonstrate skill at redirecting damage before it hits a party member.



And unironically, this is more or less the same for healer gameplay. Fun when things are going wrong. Less fun when everything goes according to plan.

I feel like this binary thing where damage is either 100% unavoidable or 100% avoidable is a plague on both tanks and healers in this game.

It really doesn't feel like your redirecting enemies to yourself in the first place because tank stance is one button enemies will attach to you as soon as you look in their general direction, It's absurdly boring lol. So yeah I do think it actually plays a strong part into why tanks don't "protect" their party, Though I also like using utility skills would be nice if for example a high instance of damage would target a random player, so things like cover (or target mits) would have a actual use outside of "if OT use on MT if buster"

Healers and tanks suffer from both being a afterthought to dps, to a extent my biggest issue though is a lot of content even with "predictable" damage it's usually not a lot outgoing, even something as simple as just more outgoing damage would help, though I'd love for bosses to have more unpredictable damage spikes not everything being a set fomular where not everything plays out the exact same.

[PyurBlue]

There is no real gameplay for tanks because there are few to no meaningful opportunities to demonstrate skill at redirecting damage before it hits a party member.


Fun when things are going wrong. Less fun when everything goes according to plan.

So true. The new normal raids have made tanking fun again because I've had to plan out mitigations and watch the state of the party when there are many vulns and deaths, though already things have become much easier and the question of content longevity is starting to creep in.

Besides dialing up damage in encounters new defense mechanics could also do a lot to turn tanking into a more interesting role. Rather than lowering damage through CD's like reprisal, positioning could play a part. If a proximity AoE is going off, the game could check to see which player is closest to it and if other players are behind them. The closest player would take more damage while also shielding players directly behind them. Such a mechanic naturally leans into the strength of tanks without hard coding their place in the fight and I'd image it would be rather dynamic by design, especially if the AoE going off wasn't a static and predictable event.

[Valence]

In my view, tanks "protect" the party by primarily by redirecting damage to themselves. The problem is that this has all but been trivialized in FFXIV. It's either:

• LOL, ~Tank Stance~, or
• Unavoidable raid wide damage.

There is no real gameplay for tanks because there are few to no meaningful opportunities to demonstrate skill at redirecting damage before it hits a party member.



And unironically, this is more or less the same for healer gameplay. Fun when things are going wrong. Less fun when everything goes according to plan.

I feel like this binary thing where damage is either 100% unavoidable or 100% avoidable is a plague on both tanks and healers in this game.

Welcome to modern XIV. There used to be a lot less oneshot binary mechanics before SHB.
I do believe tanks could really benefit from prey mechanics being back on the menu in the game. We used to have a lot of those, and even if in normal mode they wouldn't outright oneshot someone, they would hurt them enough. I do think all tanks could benefit from a variation of cover, or at least reworked TBN/Intervention/Conundrum/etc when used on allies, and actually playing the tank archetype that goes in front of a squishy ally and shield them from a blow. In extreme/savage+ you'd naturally have those prey mechanics outright delete non tanks.
Hell you could even imagine something taken directly from Valigarmanda ex and have the tank act like a meteor/rock in front of an AoE prey mechanic, having the ally hide behind the tank for it.

[Nero-Voidstails]

Shame I can't be a melee based support/healer in this game, one of the things that annoy me about this game. Maybe advocating tanks to be more supportive and less giga tank unstoppable gods may come across as odd to some people, but I really like the idea of tanks being a party "protector" type of role.

Paladin unironically is most enjoyable when your keeping people up alive and using your cooldowns not just selfishly imo. Shame that often theirs just not really a need for that when nothing is going wrong which is 80% of the time

I am a gunbreaker main and I know I can solo bosses but I hate the idea and I always share my heart of corr and aurora to others even as a darknight I give oblation and blackest night to others if they are in need. It always feel so good not gonna lie I am also a healer main scholar to be precise and I just miss the facts that healer and tanks were in harmony with each other where both were as important I miss protect and shell even the different fairy one that attack the other that heals. I want those back mostly but most people want healer to have more DPS instead of having a better mechanical fights that aren't a memory game

[Reimmi]

Theirs a few things that can be said as I always see this sort of post crop up.

I do agree to a Extent that tank self healing is a problem but it's only part of the problem of a larger issue. With tank self healing theirs also major differences between the tanks, Warrior is clearly overtuned by a mile, GNB/PLD have too much but can reasonably be reduced in ways that are more fair, Dark Knight sort of doesn't really have any major consistent way of sustain outside combo and shadow vigil which primarly should be used for mitigation.

But theirs Other issues, Mitigation is argubly in a more overwhelming powerful state, the amount of damage tanks can take due to overbloated mitigation kits is absurd, Mitigation stacks with self healing also so if you want to actually tackle tanks survivability by being too high you should go after both, even redistribute some of that mitigation power to the healers by buffing cooldowns like aqua veil.

Fights do not also do enough auto attack damage and gear scaling is a large issue that causes "solo runs". This should be improved in future fights to require tanks be healed more often.

Ehh i disagree with making the healers have more mitigation tools for the tank specifically.
Reduce tank healing i agree completely, but the tanks should have the full agency in their survival against tank busters imo

Give healers more group mitigation instead and reduce some of the power of reprisal or other group mits the non healers have