Trying to play MCH with PUG's is pure agony.

[YukioKobayashi]

Quite a few prog groups are hitting sub 1% enrage. The loss of damage bringing a MCH can be the deciding factor in early PF for a clear or a wasted lockout.

Same can be said about bringing a PLD over a GNB, a NIN over a SAM/VPR, a WHM over an AST and RDM/SMN over PCT/BLM. The damage discrepancy between BLM compared to SMN/RDM is even higher, almost twice as much and they are not locked out.

[Nuketini]

"You cannot join the party as your current class/job."


MCH is weak damagewise compared to DNC/BRD in every group that can press buttons but so is RDM/SMN compared to PCT/BLM and they are not getting locked out.
Please dont come with "but they have a battleraise!" .. yes.. and MCH has the better mitigation for prog with Dismantle. Improvisation is a joke and Minne doesnt prevent you from dying if you get oneshot.

This needs to stop. Rant over.

This makes me sad.

[Aco505]

Physical Ranged jobs are taxed about 10% damage for functionally no reason, and the 1% pity buff to damage they provide by existing is lower than the penalty they get for being ranged.

Ergo, there is no reason to bring a physical ranged to a party when you can just bring another Melee, Caster, or a battle rez.

The 1% buff is still very much required. No group goes without a p. range in hard content.

This doesn't change the fact that p. range should be brought for more than just that. For starters, the gap should not be more than 5%, if we follow SE's current philosophy on job balance.

[Reimmi]

MCH should be the lowest of the selfish dps, but not anywhere near as much as it is now
it should be like, 2% lower than viper at the worst. This is awful

[Arohk]

Lets ignore the raid issue for a moment, i think the concept of the Machinist Job is just unfun to play, the Aether Transformer is a visual stain on my screen.

The job needs a complete rework, not just a few potency buffs.

[Yeol]

All selfish DPS should be somewhat close to each other in terms of damage.

SE should rework how they balance their jobs. Providing support of any kind V.S. Selfish DPS.

[PercibelTheren]

"You cannot join the party as your current class/job."


MCH is weak damagewise compared to DNC/BRD in every group that can press buttons but so is RDM/SMN compared to PCT/BLM and they are not getting locked out.
Please dont come with "but they have a battleraise!" .. yes.. and MCH has the better mitigation for prog with Dismantle. Improvisation is a joke and Minne doesnt prevent you from dying if you get oneshot.

This needs to stop. Rant over.

That's because the DNC mit is Shield Samba and they have Curing Waltz. But yes, Improvisation is a joke. The regen is pitiful and you barely ever get to channel it long enough for the mitigation.

That being said, this is incredibly stupid behavior on the part of the community and I really wish people would knock it off. And I also wish MCH was in a better spot.

[PercibelTheren]

The 1% buff is still very much required. No group goes without a p. range in hard content.

This doesn't change the fact that p. range should be brought for more than just that. For starters, the gap should not be more than 5%, if we follow SE's current philosophy on job balance.

I guess it is now that PCT has been nerfed. In the previous tier, on Zodiark I regularly saw groups skipping a rPHYS in favour of a PCT.

[Jamini]

Same can be said about bringing a PLD over a GNB, a NIN over a SAM/VPR, a WHM over an AST and RDM/SMN over PCT/BLM. The damage discrepancy between BLM compared to SMN/RDM is even higher, almost twice as much and they are not locked out.

SMN and PCT bring battle rezzes, and they should really be doing more damage too.

Battle Rezzes are quite valuable, compared to anything a MCH brings.

[Jamini]

The 1% buff is still very much required. No group goes without a p. range in hard content.

This doesn't change the fact that p. range should be brought for more than just that. For starters, the gap should not be more than 5%, if we follow SE's current philosophy on job balance.

You would think that, but you are wrong! Double caster comps not only are clearing, but are doing so easier than any comp with a prange!

An "Average" group is dealing around 170,000 - 180,000DPS (using M5 as a comparison since it has the most data). 1% of that group DPS is 1,800dps.

Replacing any prange (tops out at 27,000 rdps at 50th percentile) with any Black Mage or Melee (low end of 29,000 rdps, top end of 30,000rdps) gives your group a gain of 2,000-3,000 damage. Even accounting for the 1% lower damage on the new damage output source (200-300 dps loss) you still don't close the gap at all.

The actual numbers I've been running since dawntrail started are a bit more complicated considering group composition, and a small boost in raw HP is also useful for prog purposes... however generally adding a BLM or any melee in the place of your ranged is a net gain. PCT was also a net gain until this patch. RDM and SMN are a minor group DPS loss, in exchange for a battle rez.

If you have a RDM or SMN in your party, yeeting your ranged player and recruiting a black mage or Pictomancer is a strict, substantial gain for your group unless your group is a barse group.