Unsubs vs Resubs over BLM changes

[ovIm]

It might be counterintuitive, but the vast array of classes is in fact why they all have to be ultimately work quite similar.
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This issue, coupled with the frankly inane need (and community desire) for more and more classes, means difficulty has to lie entirely in the encounter.

Respectfully, thats bollocks. Making things balanced does not mean homogenization and pushing every bit of difficulty into the encounter. It is much more work and definitely harder to balance the classes if they are not homogenized and each bring something unique to the table, yes absolutely, cause that means developing encounters with every class in mind and not just 5 roles.
But that does not absolve Square Enix from their product, since it is their job to figure this out. We are paying them to figure this out. They have a veritable army of game designers at hand, being such a massive studio with years and years of expertise in game design and development. However, from the credits, job design team is still just 4 or 5 people strong.

Homogenization and job simplification/shallowfication/however you want to call it is simply the easiest and laziest way to achieve some resemblance of balance, but balance does not require either of those things.

[Carighan]

Respectfully, thats bollocks. Making things balanced does not mean homogenization

All of MMORPG history disagrees with you there. MMORPGs naturally homogenize as they age. It just seems to be a universal law of MMO gaming, but it makes sense as games age, and naturally rosters both in class amount and class loadout expand. They also naturally either remove of neuter pet classes, though I'm not sure why if I'm honest, but it still happens in every MMO eventually.

More importantly though, that's not what I said. I did not say balance required homogenization, but a large roster eventually does, and with FFXIV having such a large roster comparatively speaking, it naturally does so more than other games, and faster. There is btw one counterexample, but it also provides for one of those weird and whacky worlds of how things could be: Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 has 9 classes, each with tens of thousands of possible setups, effectively a near infinite pool of effective classes you could bring to a fight. The vast vast vast majority of these are not balanced at all, and strictly inferior, and all but one or two are absolutely inferior for any given goal you want to achieve. The other 9998 options are kept in as, well, fluff. They are window dressing. And even then GW2 is heavily homogenized anyways, just to a far lesser degree than most MMORPGs of its age.

And coming from 7 years of playing that before moving to FFXIV, it's different, but not superior at all. I would not call it inferior either, just very different. It has upsides, such as this wild diversity in loadouts, one Mesmer not at all playing like another Mesmer. But it also has lots of downsides, such as the individual irrelevance of each individual effect and the homogenization that comes from each ability applying 4-6 effects total out of a relatively small pool of maybe 20 effects that are the entire game. Its class system is interesting, but not in the "Look how much better things could be!"-way.

But again, to reel that back in: Even Guild Wars 2 heavily homogenized over the years. It is a constant of MMO gaming. You can argue why and whether it should be, but right now, it absolutely is!

[RezPls]

I'm playing it in Savage right now and I get absolutely no enjoyment from the job. I'd be on RDM instead if this tier didn't make it uniquely bad if it can't fake-melee.

I am too, but I'm actually enjoying it. Maybe play something you don't hate?
I was quoting someone who only plays PLD and has not ever cleared high end content acting as if they have any sort of knowledge on the subject of job design and balance; which they don't.

[CidHeiral]

This issue, coupled with the frankly inane need (and community desire) for more and more classes, means difficulty has to lie entirely in the encounter.

Not true at all.

[Supersnow845]

I am too, but I'm actually enjoying it. Maybe play something you don't hate?
I was quoting someone who only plays PLD and has not ever cleared high end content acting as if they have any sort of knowledge on the subject of job design and balance; which they don't.

The whole point of “play a class you don’t hate” is that this pool has been shrinking and shrinking constantly for anyone who wants class depth. If you played BLM for its depth and optimisation what are your options now………BRD?

[Owyn_Addens]

I am too, but I'm actually enjoying it. Maybe play something you don't hate?
I was quoting someone who only plays PLD and has not ever cleared high end content acting as if they have any sort of knowledge on the subject of job design and balance; which they don't.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hate Black Mage now, but I'm completely apathetic to it and it frustrates me that Square Enix has decided to spend this entire expansion slowly chipping away at the thing I had the most fun with.
Why don't I play a job that I love, then? Easy. There aren't any left.

[Rithy255]

I am too, but I'm actually enjoying it. Maybe play something you don't hate?
I was quoting someone who only plays PLD and has not ever cleared high end content acting as if they have any sort of knowledge on the subject of job design and balance; which they don't.

It's easy to say that "play something you don't hate" but a lot of us have already seen changes to pretty much every job at this point that puts them in a direction that feels very samey, so if every job is getting changed into the pretty much same direction what job exactly do we have left to play?

I used to play a lot of Monk, Astro, Black mage But DT put those jobs in a direction I disliked. This has happened to many other jobs as well..

I'm a Paladin main but mostly because its the job I most visually vibe with, back in 6.2 I actually used to love its old rotation, but it became "generic tank number 4" after that rework, basically playing any other tank offers the same experience now, Why can't other tanks play differently?

Why does every job have to appeal to the lowest skill floor? why can't we have jobs made for players looking for something different? you'd expect to at least have like 4-5 high skill jobs, maybe some in the middle and some beginner friendly...

I don't want every job designed for me, but when you say things like "play something you don't hate?" what exactly are we meant to even play at this point, when looking for a job thats fun, got a skill floor/ceiling (even a small one) I don't think theirs anything really left... so what exactly are we meant to play?

All people like me can do is voice our opinions here now.

[Mecia]

The whole point of “play a class you don’t hate” is that this pool has been shrinking and shrinking constantly for anyone who wants class depth. If you played BLM for its depth and optimisation what are your options now………BRD?

What is this sudden anxiety im feeling over song timers? Is that a 'please look forward to it' in the distance?