SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[Rithy255]

I don’t think BLM being easy is an excuse to put it under the melees because a lot of the melees are easy as well. M6 is warping around VPR and VPR is competing with SMN for title of “biggest void of class design”

The balance is just back to making no sense. At least pre 7.2 while PCT was overpowered most other jobs positions made decent sense (RDM has always been too underpowered), now it’s just……..what

I mean melees have rotations and "uptime" (I don't know how actually important uptime is in the new fights, i figured they buffed them because they'd have more downtime). Black mage has... fire spam... melees are easy but black mage is even easier imo.

Though "difficulty" balancing has always been a sort a hot topic, It's quite weird seeing Red mage and Pictomancer next to each other honestly I think RDM has always been UP but they have rez to at least be more appealing in prog (reclears imo it doesn't matter as much what you bring at that point aslong as you got some gear). Summoner is also laughable but I couldn't care about that job.

The balancing numbers do look sort of awful though like viper looks so far ahead of ninja, mch is practically a joke job at this point It just shows as much as SE tries to make things hyper simple for the sake of balancing the less sense things make lol.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Yeah the way they changed PCT and the melee’s is super problematic. We are basically back to EW job balancing. VPR is 12% ahead of every other class in M6, the melees dominate the top spots for 0 reason and BLM sits up with the melees while PCT is now barely holding onto being better than RDM

The devs never said it was designed to do less than BLM. They said it was meant to compete with BLM and the melees. With these changes in one patch they have made it have basically no niche and made its rotation feel like trash. No wonder people didn’t trust them to nerf it

Yeah, this was the outcome I figured was going to happen if they did nerf PCT. I do not trust them at nerfing jobs anymore. Someone said something in this week's Mr Happy weekly Q&A video that I think is true. Since the dev team rarely ever nerfs jobs and usually tries to take the road of buffing, they honestly have no clue how to nerf a job that doesn't just end up making it feel like trash. Like I can't think of a nerf that didn't go overboard this dev team has ever really done.

[Rithy255]

Yeah, this was the outcome I figured was going to happen if they did nerf PCT. I do not trust them at nerfing jobs anymore. Someone said something in this week's Mr Happy weekly Q&A video that I think is true. Since the dev team rarely ever nerfs jobs and usually tries to take the road of buffing, they honestly have no clue how to nerf a job that doesn't just end up making it feel like trash. Like I can't think of a nerf that didn't go overboard this dev team has ever really done.

Honestly picto would have been fine for savage, it was already in a healthy spot for savage, they already buffed melees (and blm along with taking away the spirit of the job) so i don't get why they needed to go after pictomancer so much at least for 7.2 would have kinda made sense as a emergency in 7.01, but these types of nerfs now after they already buffed so many jobs twice just makes no sense.

But for some reason we got balances around ultimate when the new savage was coming out, like buffing gunbreaker for no reason? who even asked for this gunbreaker wasn't underperforming

[Supersnow845]

The way they did these balance changes makes me feel like they forgot that they already tried to balance the game around PCT for the last 2 patches

Like these changes would have sorta worked if they saw the balance in 7.0 itself and went “PCT’s too strong in its ability to store damage and BLM is underperforming”

Instead they buffed BLM and the melee (and so DNC and BRD by proxy) twice THEN decided to nerf PCT AND buff the melees and BLM again

The nerf to PCT was about 3% in a vacuum but about a 5-6% nerf relative to its direct competitors in a 7.1 meta where outside of FRU the only way PCT was ahead was if you fanageled cDPS on top end buff feeding parses

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Honestly picto would have been fine for savage, it was already in a healthy spot for savage, they already buffed melees (and blm along with taking away the spirit of the job) so i don't get why they needed to go after pictomancer so much at least for 7.2 would have kinda made sense as a emergency in 7.01, but these types of nerfs now after they already buffed so many jobs twice just makes no sense.

But for some reason we got balances around ultimate when the new savage was coming out, like buffing gunbreaker for no reason? who even asked for this gunbreaker wasn't underperforming

Just as you said, they have to balance around ultimate, and they acted on the outrage of the community since everyone and their mother was crying for pct to be nerfed. So they got what they wanted, PCT was nerfed. Just like years ago, everyone's complained was about how their buffs didn't line up with other buffs, and what did the devs do? They listen, and they gave us the 2 min meta and now every single buff in this game might as well be a role action since they all do pretty much the same things at the same time. Same thing happened to SMN, ppl complain it was too hard or the pet ai was too chucky. So what did the devs do? They listened and removed the pets altogether(rip carby) and made the job play itself. Honestly, at this point, I don't blame even the devs all that much...I blame the community as a whole(mostly content creators like Mr Happy and others).

[Rithy255]

Just as you said, they have to balance around ultimate, and they acted on the outrage of the community since everyone and their mother was crying for pct to be nerfed. So they got what they wanted, PCT was nerfed. Just like years ago, everyone's complained was about how their buffs didn't line up with other buffs, and what did the devs do? They listen, and they gave us the 2 min meta and now every single buff in this game might as well be a role action since they all do pretty much the same things at the same time. Same thing happened to SMN, ppl complain it was too hard or the pet ai was too chucky. So what did the devs do? They listened and removed the pets altogether(rip carby) and made the job play itself. Honestly, at this point, I don't blame even the devs all that much...I blame the community as a whole(mostly content creators like Mr Happy and others).

I blame the devs generally speaking for some absurd changes.

As much as 2 minute meta was a issue that's been pointed as the playerbases fault, I don't think it's fully on people who aren't game designers to always have the best take, maybe they should listen to feedback but also take it with a grain of salt.

Maybe if the devs actually talked about discussed changes to get peoples further opinions on it, it would be better they could certainly trial changes such as the 2minute meta, I mean we tried to for all of endwalker and I think even more people complain that 2 minute meta is a thing compared to when people complained about buffs not aligning but it's not like they changed it (they only had what a whole expansion and a half now to revert too minute meta), in fact they made it worse by making all buffs now 20s to even more super align bursts. I mean you can say "oh we changed [x] because we got feedback it was bad" but at the end of the day they could have made a sort of post or even poll that would give them better data if changing that would be a actual good thing.

Devs also refuse to listen to players like black mages in what actual good changes should be made, Though as content creators have massive influence they are partly at fault for some things I won't deny that.

[ovIm]

Honestly, at this point, I don't blame even the devs all that much...I blame the community as a whole(mostly content creators like Mr Happy and others).

You are wrong to do that, to be honest. I've said so in another post on the general forum, but the gist is
Players have no clue how game design works. So a game designer can never fully take complaints by players at face value, they need to understand the deeper meaning.

People complained that synching up buffs was difficult. What the issue was was not the buff timers themselves, it was that the multiplicative damage calculation and the existence of some skills like trick attack were a black hole that sucked in everyones damage cooldowns because you were gimping your groups damage by not utilizing that. A good game designer would have understood the issues and possibly have implemented a different fix than "make every class' buffs the same".

Another thing that CS3 does is that they just drop things they do not see working right. Fix pet AI? No, its easier to just delete pets altogether. Height variations in Coil T5 were abusable? Better make every arena a perfectly horizontal plane!

And lastly, class buffs and nerfs -> the issue here being that CS3 do not understand their own jobs and game, which is something you can see time and time again. A better PCT nerf would have been moving some potency from motifs to the filler, flattening the damage curve a bit without taking away the unique strengths of the class. Whenever CS3 adjust a class its very much a "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" approach. Sometimes they get lucky and something works right, often times things just feel like they were not thought out at all.

So no, please do not subscribe to the fact that its the players fault. Yes, we complain, but if CS3 are unable to gauge the real issue from our complaints, then that is on them.

[Supersnow845]

^to be fair attempting to flatten PCT’s curve by moving potency into filler from the Muses was what they did with this change

They just apparently don’t understand what PPS means

[ovIm]

^to be fair attempting to flatten PCT’s curve by moving potency into filler from the Muses was what they did with this change

They just apparently don’t understand what PPS means

ah, I must've misread the patchnotes and complaints then. My bad, thanks for the correction!

[Supersnow845]

ah, I must've misread the patchnotes and complaints then. My bad, thanks for the correction!

Basically they buffed the aetherhues and nerfed the muses

So it did fix its dominance in FRU (if you considered that a problem and not a valid outcome of its unique design) but the problem is they buffed the filler too far and nerfed the muses too hard so now hammer is a loss and creature parts are only a slight gain specifically if you also get the full creature out

So the job now incentivises magical missile filler spam