SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Honestly picto would have been fine for savage, it was already in a healthy spot for savage, they already buffed melees (and blm along with taking away the spirit of the job) so i don't get why they needed to go after pictomancer so much at least for 7.2 would have kinda made sense as a emergency in 7.01, but these types of nerfs now after they already buffed so many jobs twice just makes no sense.

But for some reason we got balances around ultimate when the new savage was coming out, like buffing gunbreaker for no reason? who even asked for this gunbreaker wasn't underperforming

Just as you said, they have to balance around ultimate, and they acted on the outrage of the community since everyone and their mother was crying for pct to be nerfed. So they got what they wanted, PCT was nerfed. Just like years ago, everyone's complained was about how their buffs didn't line up with other buffs, and what did the devs do? They listen, and they gave us the 2 min meta and now every single buff in this game might as well be a role action since they all do pretty much the same things at the same time. Same thing happened to SMN, ppl complain it was too hard or the pet ai was too chucky. So what did the devs do? They listened and removed the pets altogether(rip carby) and made the job play itself. Honestly, at this point, I don't blame even the devs all that much...I blame the community as a whole(mostly content creators like Mr Happy and others).

[Rithy255]

Just as you said, they have to balance around ultimate, and they acted on the outrage of the community since everyone and their mother was crying for pct to be nerfed. So they got what they wanted, PCT was nerfed. Just like years ago, everyone's complained was about how their buffs didn't line up with other buffs, and what did the devs do? They listen, and they gave us the 2 min meta and now every single buff in this game might as well be a role action since they all do pretty much the same things at the same time. Same thing happened to SMN, ppl complain it was too hard or the pet ai was too chucky. So what did the devs do? They listened and removed the pets altogether(rip carby) and made the job play itself. Honestly, at this point, I don't blame even the devs all that much...I blame the community as a whole(mostly content creators like Mr Happy and others).

I blame the devs generally speaking for some absurd changes.

As much as 2 minute meta was a issue that's been pointed as the playerbases fault, I don't think it's fully on people who aren't game designers to always have the best take, maybe they should listen to feedback but also take it with a grain of salt.

Maybe if the devs actually talked about discussed changes to get peoples further opinions on it, it would be better they could certainly trial changes such as the 2minute meta, I mean we tried to for all of endwalker and I think even more people complain that 2 minute meta is a thing compared to when people complained about buffs not aligning but it's not like they changed it (they only had what a whole expansion and a half now to revert too minute meta), in fact they made it worse by making all buffs now 20s to even more super align bursts. I mean you can say "oh we changed [x] because we got feedback it was bad" but at the end of the day they could have made a sort of post or even poll that would give them better data if changing that would be a actual good thing.

Devs also refuse to listen to players like black mages in what actual good changes should be made, Though as content creators have massive influence they are partly at fault for some things I won't deny that.

[ovIm]

Honestly, at this point, I don't blame even the devs all that much...I blame the community as a whole(mostly content creators like Mr Happy and others).

You are wrong to do that, to be honest. I've said so in another post on the general forum, but the gist is
Players have no clue how game design works. So a game designer can never fully take complaints by players at face value, they need to understand the deeper meaning.

People complained that synching up buffs was difficult. What the issue was was not the buff timers themselves, it was that the multiplicative damage calculation and the existence of some skills like trick attack were a black hole that sucked in everyones damage cooldowns because you were gimping your groups damage by not utilizing that. A good game designer would have understood the issues and possibly have implemented a different fix than "make every class' buffs the same".

Another thing that CS3 does is that they just drop things they do not see working right. Fix pet AI? No, its easier to just delete pets altogether. Height variations in Coil T5 were abusable? Better make every arena a perfectly horizontal plane!

And lastly, class buffs and nerfs -> the issue here being that CS3 do not understand their own jobs and game, which is something you can see time and time again. A better PCT nerf would have been moving some potency from motifs to the filler, flattening the damage curve a bit without taking away the unique strengths of the class. Whenever CS3 adjust a class its very much a "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" approach. Sometimes they get lucky and something works right, often times things just feel like they were not thought out at all.

So no, please do not subscribe to the fact that its the players fault. Yes, we complain, but if CS3 are unable to gauge the real issue from our complaints, then that is on them.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

You are wrong to do that, to be honest. I've said so in another post on the general forum, but the gist is
Players have no clue how game design works. So a game designer can never fully take complaints by players at face value, they need to understand the deeper meaning.

People complained that synching up buffs was difficult. What the issue was was not the buff timers themselves, it was that the multiplicative damage calculation and the existence of some skills like trick attack were a black hole that sucked in everyones damage cooldowns because you were gimping your groups damage by not utilizing that. A good game designer would have understood the issues and possibly have implemented a different fix than "make every class' buffs the same".

Another thing that CS3 does is that they just drop things they do not see working right. Fix pet AI? No, its easier to just delete pets altogether. Height variations in Coil T5 were abusable? Better make every arena a perfectly horizontal plane!

And lastly, class buffs and nerfs -> the issue here being that CS3 do not understand their own jobs and game, which is something you can see time and time again. A better PCT nerf would have been moving some potency from motifs to the filler, flattening the damage curve a bit without taking away the unique strengths of the class. Whenever CS3 adjust a class its very much a "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" approach. Sometimes they get lucky and something works right, often times things just feel like they were not thought out at all.

So no, please do not subscribe to the fact that its the player's fault. Yes, we complain, but if CS3 are unable to gauge the real issue from our complaints, then that is on them.

You're right, but at the same time, I can't help to have some resentment towards the players who complain about a job(who don't even play the job they're complaining about) leads to the job I really enjoy getting trashed. I was a devoted SMN main when I started this game in SB, I fell in love with the job and enjoy it. I loved it in ShB as well. Then EW happened, all the fun I had in the job, all the years I spent mastering it and getting really good at it, gone. All because ppl who didn't like the job or didn't like learning the job complain about it and the devs then rework it into the game's easiest job that doesn't have anything complex about it. I had to leave the caster role in EW bc of the change and go play RPR.

Now the same thing is happening to PCT. I loved PCT and enjoyed playing a job that felt powerful and fun. Now there is no reason to play PCT. Why play PCT when RDM basically does the same dps and has a rez?

You right, its mostly on the devs BUT I do whole resentment to those who cry about things that honestly didn't really need fixing imo.