Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Araxes]

One of the key points they said they’d fix was the lips that were raised and lowered but it seems like they forgot that point, and it’s obvious everyone hates the way they currently look…

My biggest problem is that this particular Miqo Face looks like the Guy is stoned since the update.

[Dazedu]

They changed the lighting again and ruined the eyes. This time my cat's eyelid got caught in it too. When will this stop? I'd just adjusted to the minimally acceptable look in 7.1, and now 7.2 made everything worse than 7.0. What's the point?

[Dagget]

I do like the improvement to vast numbers of NPC outfits. Was really tired of guards looking like they hacked their own belts etc. Even Kan-E-Senna's necklace no longer looks like it was painted on.

[IndraSyngiwyb]

Face 2 roegadyn is still borked.

Guess I'm just gonna have to accept that I'm gonna be a highlander forever.

[Daralii]

They changed the lighting again and ruined the eyes. This time my cat's eyelid got caught in it too. When will this stop? I'd just adjusted to the minimally acceptable look in 7.1, and now 7.2 made everything worse than 7.0. What's the point?

They initially said that they'd be working to address issues raised by players through 7.2, but they've obviously done very little to address the comprehensive breakdowns of the things that are obviously broken or dramatically changed for the worse. I'm fully expecting the next LL to include them saying that they're done and pat themselves on the back for what they did in 7.1 and 7.2.

[Loggos]

Lip Colour: Black (Dark option) / Lip Colour: White (Light option)

Edit: I read too fast and didn't see that you and SchwarzwälderTorte already discussed this very issue (reading is hard). :'D
I'll keep the post up though as an extra reminder for the devs, hoping they'll pick up on this particular point of feedback because I agree the missing line is a big problem.

----

Looking at those comparisons something that I was never really able to put into words suddenly became clear to me.
(I can't edit any images right now. I hope I can explain it well enough.)

In addition to all the criticism people have pointed out, 6.x mouths have a much deeper shadow around the line where the upper and lower lip meet, leading to a darker "line" between the upper and the lower lip.

So even if the shape itself may be similar (e.g. both versions have the slight "downwards dip" of the upper lip in the middle of the line where the upper and lower lip meet) the visual effect is completely different due to the weak, almost non-existent, shadow between the upper and the lower lip.

This strong shadow adds a lot of character and quite literally defines the shape and the expression much better, resulting in a more striking and pronounced appearance.

This is a really important element for the unique look of the different mouths because even though the line between the lips itself may technically be similar if you look really hard you just don't properly perceive it if the defining shadows are lacking, robbing it of its characteristic impact.
The 7.0+ lips look so wishy-washy in comparison because the line between the upper and the lower lip is so weak and undefined that it just doesn't stand out as a feature and has no strong character.

This issue is not related to the lighting engine I think because this line's shadow is always weak and undefined.

This is why it's not enough to fix the outer shapes of the lower and upper lip (e.g., cupid bow), the expression (slight smile or frown) and the duckface/puffy cheeks (although all of them also need to be fixed!)
They also really need to add this definition between the lower and upper lip back in (e.g., by "hand-painting" the depth back in).

(Sorry for the formatting. Trying to grab the devs' attention without images.)

[Heavenchild]

There is another general thing that bothers me about FF14 graphics!

Again and again we get NPC's that have totally different body types than we can have.
For example Ryne or Sphene. Both are technically Hyr. But both are muuuch slimer and more elegant than actual female Hyr bodies.

It's like they know that their models don't meet their own standards and so they make slimer versions for their NPC's.
Also we have not a single option to really play a small male and a little bit 'animelike' character. And now they threw Calyx in our faces! xD (awesome design btw!)

For female chars, I think Aura is closest to 'animelike'. But their males have not such an option. All just huge bodybuilders.
Aura were a good opportunity to make 2 really different subraces. A very small one and a big one, for both male and female. And both can choose between 2 horn colors.

At this point I just wish..., when they someday fixed the races that are already there, that they make some kind of half-celestrial race, maybe from another shard.
And that this one will finally get the option of really(!) handsome more elegant males, that are not bodybuilders, that can be actual really small and slim (e. g. like female Aura), OR slim and bigger, and more like we see it in all japanese/korean/chinese anime/fantasy series and games. And with elegant proper emotes and voices.

OR: Muuuch more options for face, size, body type, voices, emotes/poses for the existing races. But this would be maybe more work, than implementing one more, that meets the criteria mentioned. D :
If a lot of work would be fine, then it could also be like: That every existing race gets the option to be a half-celestrial being, and so have new options for faces, bodytypes, voices, and so on. Maybe there is a shard where such stuff happens! ^w^

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More ideas:

I could imagine maybe special celestrial eyes without a 'dark' pupil, but vibrant depht and options like glittering or shiny skin, or something like that. Huge differences in size, but always slim.
Please not that 1:1 sizeslider we do have now that scales like a vectorgraphic! Taller people are proportional not a 1:1 upscaled small person! They way it scales at the moment is also really a problem in my opinion. :3

They could give them some kind of wingmount as a collector edition 'plus' mount for the half-celestrial race, with just 'pure beautiful white wings'.
So that when you choose the race, and have bought collector edition 'plus' of the expansion in which they release, you can get auto.the mount 'my wings'. :O
(And of course there should be a normal collectors edition with a normal mount for everyone. 'Plus' would include both mounts. But just people who want the 'my Wings' would need to buy it.)

Most cool would be if it would be possible to 'not hide' the wings in cities (but not able to fly in the air and stuff). I have no clue if this would be technically possible.
Or if there would be a toggle on/off option, that the wings show when using sprint, that then flying just above the ground instead of using legs.
Or if there would be a toggle on/off option, that the wings show when using sprint, that then the char is flying just above the ground instead of using his/her legs. And wings hide again when the char stops to run.



I made a thread for it:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lf-Celestrials

[Khryseis_Astra]

Lip Colour: Black (Dark option) / Lip Colour: White (Light option)

Your pictures here are just another example of how there is actually less definition and detail in the newer lips, along with shapes being completely changed. Some people will say “but the graphics update gave us more fine detail!” and it’s obvious they haven’t looked at the lips at all! The older ones had much more detail, the new ones look almost blurry, along with the upper lips being mostly chopped in half on most faces!

[noumen0nn]

Edit: I read too fast and didn't see that you and SchwarzwälderTorte already discussed this very issue (reading is hard). :'D
I'll keep the post up though as an extra reminder for the devs, hoping they'll pick up on this particular point of feedback because I agree the missing line is a big problem.

----

Looking at those comparisons something that I was never really able to put into words suddenly became clear to me.
(I can't edit any images right now. I hope I can explain it well enough.)

In addition to all the criticism people have pointed out, 6.x mouths have a much deeper shadow around the line where the upper and lower lip meet, leading to a darker "line" between the upper and the lower lip.

So even if the shape itself may be similar (e.g. both versions have the slight "downards dip" of the upper lip in the middle of the line where the upper and lower lip meet) the visual effect is completely different due to the weak, almost non-existent, shadow between the upper and the lower lip. It's almost inexistent.

This strong shadow adds a lot of character and quite literally defines the shape and the expression much better, resulting in a more striking and pronounced appearance.

This is a really important element for the unique look of the different mouths because even though the line between the lips itself may technically be similar if you look really hard you just don't properly perceive it if the defining shadows are lacking, robbing it of its characteristic impact.
The 7.0+ lips look so wishy-washy in comparison because the line between the upper and the lower lip is so weak and undefined that it just doesn't stand out as a feature and has no strong character.

This issue is not related to the lighting engine I think because this line's shadow is always weak and undefined.

This is why it's not enough to fix the outer shapes of the lower and upper lip (e.g., cupid bow), the expression (slight smile or frown) and the duckface/puffy cheeks (although all of them also need to be fixed!)
They also really need to add this definition between the lower and upper lip back in (e.g., by "hand-painting" the depth back in).

This is exactly what I meant a few weeks ago. They removed nearly all of the baked-in shadows from our characters and expected the new lighting engine to do the work, but it just doesn't. It's not just lips either; go and stand in a sunny area and face your character directly toward the direction of the sunlight, and you will barely be able to make out your jawline against your character's neck. We need some form of the baked-in shadows back, because the kinds of shadows the devs were clearly hoping would be taken care of by the lighting cannot be rendered short of ray tracing being added to the game.

[Glitchima]

-snip-

i agree with you on the overall basis that more customization is always good generally speaking. More options for bodies, more options for faces and various other kinds of features is something that I really hope that we get to see in the future.
But I also kind of disagree that there's no elegant character options? At least from my perspective, most f models, but imo especially au ra and miqo girls are already incredibly skinny, almost to the point that it bothers me, but its treading a fine line where i think its just acceptable, i feel like anything smaller and i would feel kind of weird about it. I feel like male viera also perfectly fit the more elegant look, what with their sort of androgynous appearance, which is the whole point of vieras as a whole.

Overall, what we have now is perfectly fine as the standard look (and to me an overall basis for a slimmer character for most races), but adding more features is definitely a good idea long-term if they don't really plan to introduce more races. I've been begging for au ra horns to stop relying on face types since the day Heavensward came out, and it's still something I wish for them to change, for example.

Though I guess right now, they are occupied by the issues of transitioning to DT's new look and it seems like a lot of their time working on character stuff is just trying to fix things that 'broke' since DT's release. It'll be a long while before they introduce anything as exciting as more features in the character creator, i'm afraid.