The Black Mage simplification completely misses the point

[Arohk]

Here is a question

What job exists in the game right now that you believe is both a good example of a job that contains complexity in a meaningful sense for people who want optimisation avenues but also is well designed

I’d like to know your barometer

I am not a fan of class complexity, at least when it comes to the core gameplay. I would say ninja is in a decent spot, it would be perfect if the button bloat were reduced.

My main melee job now is viper if that isnt telling.

[Supersnow845]

I am not a fan of class complexity, at least when it comes to the core gameplay. I would say ninja is in a decent spot, it would be perfect if the button bloat were reduced.

My main melee job now is viper if that isnt telling.

Okay so do you fall into the camp of of “complexity should fall on the encounter” or “all complexity is bad”

[Arohk]

Yes, complex bosses are better than complex classes.

[Rithy255]

Yes, complex bosses are better than complex classes.

Both Bosses and Classes should be "complex" A game without unique class design that is trying to be a "MMORPG" is fundamentally a flawed design especially one like ff14 as it has very limitations on it's design.

We shouldn't focus only on one gameplay aspect, only focusing on "boss" design leaves very little reason to have 21 different classes in the first place especially if they all play very similar, If I were to make a game that only focused on fight design then we shouldn't design a job system in the first place, much less keep adding 2 new ones every expansion.

Class design bolsters encounter design, having good class variety and gameplay gives those bosses more replay value as playing on a different class Should offer a different gameplay experience.

Interesting class design doesn't have to come at the expense of people who want a more casual experience such as having some jobs made for people who want something more simple, while leaving room for complex classes for people who want that.

[Valence]

You sure talk a lot about people's logs for someone that hides behind a logless alt.

I am not a fan of class complexity, at least when it comes to the core gameplay. I would say ninja is in a decent spot, it would be perfect if the button bloat were reduced.

My main melee job now is viper if that isnt telling.

You don't even play rphys seriously, so why does it matter so much to you? Are you just that person that doesn't play a job but still asking the devs to cater to them and butcher the job regardless? Encounter mechanics are already 99% of pve duties those days, so you have that already going for you, yet you demand more?
If anything class complexity on rphys could be the primary solution to account for the lack of uptime considerations, and bring the role up to a more competitive level on damage.

[Arohk]

You don't even play rphys seriously, so why does it matter so much to you? .

because they all play like A SS

[SubmarineAlt]

You sure talk a lot about people's logs for someone that hides behind a logless alt.



You don't even play rphys seriously, so why does it matter so much to you? Are you just that person that doesn't play a job but still asking the devs to cater to them and butcher the job regardless? Encounter mechanics are already 99% of pve duties those days, so you have that already going for you, yet you demand more?
If anything class complexity on rphys could be the primary solution to account for the lack of uptime considerations, and bring the role up to a more competitive level on damage.

Who's talking about logs? You don't need logs to see when someone clears, silly. Even if it would be very odd for someone to clear an ult and for all 8 people to not be logging, now that you mention it.

As for the other part. Frustrating, isn't it? I will say, being on an alt (to protect oneself from the toxic kids of this community) looks much, much better than being on a main with hidden logs. One is hiding from retribution. The other, themselves. And competent pf group makes, come to think of it.

[Valence]

Who's talking about logs? You don't need logs to see when someone clears, silly. Even if it would be very odd for someone to clear an ult and for all 8 people to not be logging, now that you mention it.

As for the other part. Frustrating, isn't it? I will say, being on an alt (to protect oneself from the toxic kids of this community) looks much, much better than being on a main with hidden logs. One is hiding from retribution. The other, themselves. And competent pf group makes, come to think of it.

Alright, but what was that part about blues and purples that you mentioned again?
I don't find it especially frustrating. I just find it amusing, because it makes you look like a hypocrite no matter the excuses you make for it, since in fine, everything is hidden the same.

[SubmarineAlt]

Alright, but what was that part about blues and purples that you mentioned again?
I don't find it especially frustrating. I just find it amusing.

Blue and purple are just colors! Do they have a connotation I'm unfamiliar with? I was obviously referring to loot beams from random loot in the critically acclaimed mmorpg Runescape!

Besides, that was another post, not the one you originally quoted. Please do try to keep up. Square removed Machinist's 2 biggest fail states this expansion. That should have freed up your mental stack enough to keep pace with the conversation at hand, eh?

You... You don't still find ways to overcap heat, or drift drill, right?... Please let me know. If we're to converse further, I'll need to know if I need to adjust my writing style and contextual references to suit your needs!