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  1. #1
    Player
    Azurarok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    1,329
    Character
    Medim Azurarok
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Voryn View Post
    With how the game is designed these days, more healing-intensive fights can cause problems since mitigation is a big deal but you can’t trust your teammates in Savage party finder to actually know what Feint and Addle are for. Abyssos Savage was rough partially because of that, and it seemed like less people played healer in that tier than usual.
    Sounds like raidwide mitigation isn't something that should be every role's responsibility.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Reinhardt_Azureheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,697
    Character
    Reinhardt Azureheim
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Azurarok View Post
    Sounds like raidwide mitigation isn't something that should be every role's responsibility.
    Kind of...? I mean mitigation in a vacuum isn't a problem, it's only becoming an issue if you can efficiently align tank & dps raidwide mitigation if it effectively has no gaps + the incoming damage is too infrequent and coordinated in bursts.

    Same also applies to tank damage taken and kitchen sinking being something you can do due to how busters are spaced.

    Realistically it would take the following to make healing requirements go up to warrant healer presence more:
    • Tank busters (occasionally with DOTs too) being thrown more regularly and as part of raidwide damage (see Emerald Weapon EX p2 buster) or part of mechanics (see Neo-Exdeath "Delta Attack", Eden Prime savage "Delta Attack" inverted, Eden Leviathan savage "Black Smokers", DSR p6 "Wyrm's Breath" and many more).
    • Raidwide damage and/or regular tank damage being much more frequent and also uninterrupted and less condensed in bursts (i.e. can't cover everything in 3+ layers of mitigation), slap bleeds in there for good measure.

    Simply put, more damage that can be reasonably reacted to, can't be covered by bloats of mitigation forever and can't be covered by tanks & Dps healing alone.
    (4)
    Last edited by Reinhardt_Azureheim; 03-19-2025 at 04:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Carighan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,607
    Character
    Carighan Maconar
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim View Post
    Kind of...? I mean mitigation in a vacuum isn't a problem, it's only becoming an issue if you can efficiently align tank & dps raidwide mitigation if it effectively has no gaps + the incoming damage is too infrequent and coordinated in bursts.
    The (lack of) frequency is the big issue tbh. If we had near-constant raid damage, both widespread and targetted, then the ability of lots of jobs to produce and stack lots of mitigation would be less of a problem, as it'd only cover some comparatively brief moment of damage.

    I feel every single fight in this game, including dungeon bosses, should have one or a combination of these mechanics:

    * Constant DoT damage on the group.
    * 360° cleaves on the autoattack timer that damage melee DPS and tanks.
    * Random untelegraphed line or AoE attacks on people.
    * Random individual hits on non-tanks.

    None of these would be lethal (hence the lack of telegraphing). They would produce a steady and not insignificant (you can survive 2-3 hits, then you'd die if you get another one, so you need healing ASAP) and genuinely happen constantly, every 2.5s somebody suffers damage basically.

    Then sure, give people lots of mitigation to stack.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    PercibelTheren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,080
    Character
    Percibel Theren
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Azurarok View Post
    Sounds like raidwide mitigation isn't something that should be every role's responsibility.
    I'm fine with mit being everyone's responsibility. My issue is that 99% of raidwides are one big hit - which just needs a lot of mit and makes shield healers superior. DoTs are snapshotted, so mitigation also affects them (this should straight up not be a thing, imo), which lead to problems in Abyssos. DPS wouldn't mit the snapshot, healers then had issues healing through the unmitigated DoT and got blamed when people died.
    (0)

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