So the only way to progress our DoH/DoL tools will be Cosmic Exploration?

[Kaurhz]

Problem is I've never seen a game that has a more complex crafting system than FFXIV so I have no suggestions to make to improve the situation. 99% of games, the crafting is "Have items, push button."

Sure, it still has depth relative to other MMOs, that much I'll agree with, but ultimately it doesn't really amount to much when there are very few factors for that depth to actually be utilized. Some people make their own macro, so they engage with it perhaps once every 8 months. Then some people just go straight on a resource website, copy and paste a macro string, and then press 1 button, wait 40 or so seconds then press the next button.

Then you also look at it relative to how the system once functioned and you realize that it is a hollow shell of what it once was. Between abilities like WWYW, HoC, CZ, Ingenuity, and even arguably PbP and MM, it gave you a lot of control and skill over the recipes, even when you were doing them under complex situations, e.g., overcoming massive gear disparities between expansions, or just generally end-game crafting on low stats. It had a lot of skill aspect to it, something which just isn't present in modern crafting, even if you deign to manually craft out of choice, at which point generally the only recipes you ever do this for are experts, which generally become more about stats and whether RNG was or wasn't favorable to you.. Again, older crafting between WWYW and HoC still gave this choice, and would have been perfect. For as busted as I found them, they were definitely great systems and would have been perfect for experts versus current situation.

Many may not see it as a great loss, since many didn't engage with crafting to that level of nuance, but it really was.

But we can all really direct this to the simple result, sure we have all these abilities, but so what? For 99.9% of use-cases with crafting, functionally you press 1 button, turn away for 40 seconds, and then press another button and job done, recipe complete. So, really, even if we want to give benefit of the doubt to that complexity, the end result is still the same, and has been since Ala Mhigan recipes in 4.1.

Had I never interacted with crafting in this level of capacity in the past then I probably wouldn't care as I'd not be any wiser to it, but having seen what crafting once was, and what it currently is, there is definitely room for a great level of improvement (futile the suggestion may be)

[hydralus]

Sure, it still has depth relative to other MMOs, that much I'll agree with, but ultimately it doesn't really amount to much when there are very few factors for that depth to actually be utilized. Some people make their own macro, so they engage with it perhaps once every 8 months. Then some people just go straight on a resource website, copy and paste a macro string, and then press 1 button, wait 40 or so seconds then press the next button.

Then you also look at it relative to how the system once functioned and you realize that it is a hollow shell of what it once was. Between abilities like WWYW, HoC, CZ, Ingenuity, and even arguably PbP and MM, it gave you a lot of control and skill over the recipes, even when you were doing them under complex situations, e.g., overcoming massive gear disparities between expansions, or just generally end-game crafting on low stats. It had a lot of skill aspect to it, something which just isn't present in modern crafting, even if you deign to manually craft out of choice, at which point generally the only recipes you ever do this for are experts, which generally become more about stats and whether RNG was or wasn't favorable to you.. Again, older crafting between WWYW and HoC still gave this choice, and would have been perfect. For as busted as I found them, they were definitely great systems and would have been perfect for experts versus current situation.

Many may not see it as a great loss, since many didn't engage with crafting to that level of nuance, but it really was.

But we can all really direct this to the simple result, sure we have all these abilities, but so what? For 99.9% of use-cases with crafting, functionally you press 1 button, turn away for 40 seconds, and then press another button and job done, recipe complete. So, really, even if we want to give benefit of the doubt to that complexity, the end result is still the same, and has been since Ala Mhigan recipes in 4.1.

Had I never interacted with crafting in this level of capacity in the past then I probably wouldn't care as I'd not be any wiser to it, but having seen what crafting once was, and what it currently is, there is definitely room for a great level of improvement (futile the suggestion may be)

I suppose I could get on board for adding more strategic abilities like WWYW back to the game. Back in the day I never used them since I was always able to hit 100% quality regardless, but pairing it with the expert system could be an interestin' way to go about things.