List of 7.1 PvP Change Grievances

[DallsBeep]

PAL and NIN both got nerfed in the latest patch, but GNB is perfectly balanced apparently lmao. There is no class that's going to 1v1 a GNB right now, it's not happening, just fyi. It's broken af. Fix it.

[AristocraticCorgi]

PAL and NIN both got nerfed in the latest patch, but GNB is perfectly balanced apparently lmao. There is no class that's going to 1v1 a GNB right now, it's not happening, just fyi. It's broken af. Fix it.

I second this.

[Mawlzy]

PAL and NIN both got nerfed in the latest patch, but GNB is perfectly balanced apparently lmao. There is no class that's going to 1v1 a GNB right now, it's not happening, just fyi. It's broken af. Fix it.

I wonder if they're nerfing PLD to nerf stalling strats, when a better way to do it might be to nerf PLD's invuln rather than other buttons?

[DallsBeep]

I wonder if they're nerfing PLD to nerf stalling strats, when a better way to do it might be to nerf PLD's invuln rather than other buttons?

The overall theme seems to be they want things players to die faster so maybe that's the intention. I actually like the change with guard duration and movement. I'm fine with wanting to speed up the gameplay and how fast the situation can change. The only issue I have, as stated, is the obnoxious state of GNB. I main PAL, GNB has always been able to kill PAL 1vs1 provided it was played well, I'm fine with that and I fully expect that to remain the case. But the absolute state of that class right now is something else entirely, whoever it targets will get shredded instantly and you need the entire team to adjust to it to overcome the dmg output it does. It's way too disruptive to the flow of a match in CC.

[Valence]

GNB is still a very good job at top level (or meta for randoms) but hardly the best one, but it's probably one of those jobs that are beyond OP at lower levels, where they just run past your frontline casually and start murdering your ranged backline because nobody knows how to deal with them.

I wonder if they're nerfing PLD to nerf stalling strats, when a better way to do it might be to nerf PLD's invuln rather than other buttons?

No they're nerfing cover guard into elixir. PLD will be vulnerable for 1 second during the elixir, and probably even closer to 2s since there is always a small delay between the cover/guard and when the targer player starts potting. I do not know if this is what was intended with the guard changes, since their initial and stated aim is to reduce point stalling with people guarding when their team is losing, waiting for a game changing LB to crop up.

It's true that PLD can stall for crazy with its LB though. PLD's kit is pretty batshit even post nerf.

I think reducing Guard duration is probably a good thing (tentatively), because you don't need a Guard that lasts ages. Guard has many great applications but popping it when you're about to die isn't it as it's a proactive tool and not a reactive one (except vs certain LBs with delays). Being able to move back to cover a little better is probably beneficial as a tradeoff.

[DallsBeep]

GNB is still a very good job at top level (or meta for randoms) but hardly the best one.

So which job are you going to take in a 1vs1 to get smoked by the GNB? fyi you're not winning that fight.

PAL is still good I'm not pissed about the nerfs, but if we're just going to allow one of the tank classes to have crazy damage output for no reason then why even try to balance the game at all? And if we're not going to balance classes against each other then what do we base it on. CC? FL?

[Valence]

Why are you taking 1vs1 in crystalline conflict? Jobs aren't designed nor balanced to do useless duels in random corners of the map... Else you could make the same argument between literally all job combinations. Why do melees absolutely trounce any ranged job? Are you also going 1vs1 when playing ranged? Do you engage in 1vs1 as a scholar of all things against any job? And yet SCH is S tier at top level...

[DallsBeep]

Why are you taking 1vs1 in crystalline conflict? Jobs aren't designed nor balanced to do useless duels in random corners of the map... Else you could make the same argument between literally all job combinations. Why do melees absolutely trounce any ranged job? Are you also going 1vs1 when playing ranged? Do you engage in 1vs1 as a scholar of all things against any job? And yet SCH is S tier at top level...

So you're completely avoiding the question because the issue is the insanely high dmg output of GNB. "Ideal team composition at muh high level" has absolutely nothing to do with the issue either. So obviously when it comes to balance, all these factors have to be taken into consideration, hence balance.

Damage output is a phase of the game. It's still the most important factor. Healers and PAL and other support classes are great for winning games, nobody disputes that and that's the only thing you keep talking about for some reason. Killing other players is also important for winning games, you do that with damage and GNB damage is utterly ridiculous.

[Valence]

It's hard to address anything because you're not open to consider that damage isn't the only metric, and bring up silly arguments like 1vs1 which has literally no place in a team game. GNB has no crowd control beyond its LB to secure kills, GNB will be out of dashes if it tries to chase too long, GNB can be baited to overextend if it really goes full baboon and punished by a team that actually knows how to take advantage of this. If you're fixated on the scoreboards at the end of games, where damage tallies only tell a partial story btw, then you'll also have noticed that GNB damage numbers are padded like crazy at times because people keep hitting the GNB under nebula like monkeys, so guess what happens at the end?

If damage is such a huge factor, and don't get me wrong, damage is important, then why is that green/blue (no GNB) comps perform better than full red ones? Or than a full red one with a GNB?

GNB is a very good job though, sure. Not arguing against this. Perhaps I got baited by the 1vs1 argument...

[DallsBeep]

It's hard to address anything because you're not open to consider that damage isn't the only metric, and bring up silly arguments like 1vs1 which has literally no place in a team game. GNB has no crowd control beyond its LB to secure kills, GNB will be out of dashes if it tries to chase too long, GNB can be baited to overextend if it really goes full baboon and punished by a team that actually knows how to take advantage of this. If you're fixated on the scoreboards at the end of games, where damage tallies only tell a partial story btw, then you'll also have noticed that GNB damage numbers are padded like crazy at times because people keep hitting the GNB under nebula like monkeys, so guess what happens at the end?

If damage is such a huge factor, and don't get me wrong, damage is important, then why is that green/blue (no GNB) comps perform better than full red ones? Or than a full red one with a GNB?

GNB is a very good job though, sure. Not arguing against this. Perhaps I got baited by the 1vs1 argument...

I explicitly said damage isn't the only metric. Yes, if a GNB plays stupid he will get swarmed same as any other class. The issue isn't the survivability. It's that it has high survivability of a tank with much better damage than other tanks. I think GNB should have the highest dmg of all tanks. I think GNB should be able to kill most other classes 1vs1, I actually think it's part of the identity of the class that it has good dmg. Just not to the extent it currently is. And yes 1vs1 still does matter in a team game. Just because a 1vs1 is occurring does not mean it's happening at a "random corner of the map". If a match comes down to the wire and it's essentially down to a 2v2 or 1vs1 to determine who's going to win, having a lot of dmg is going to decide who wins that match the majority of the time because it's just about who gets bursted first. There are plenty of instances where that's going to matter.

And obviously healers mitigate damage. Any team with a healer is better than without one. Again I don't even know what that has to do with anything. Nobody even mentioned healers anyways that I remember except for yourself.

If you want to know how I feel about healers/PAL, look at my very short post history, there's a thread I posted in like a year ago where I advocated for it as the meta against another supposed "high level" player. I was advocating cover before this "sustain meta" was even a f'ing thing. I'm well aware of all that.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Big-Four/page2