Requiring a permit to cross the bridge was bad writing, change my mind.

[Supersnow845]

That isn't the level of reality I'm discussing.

They can write whatever they like to ground and justify it in-universe, but that doesn't stop writing considerations from being a factor.

This is what I think a lot of people miss

It doesn’t matter if you “explain” it in game. If it’s bad writing because it’s basically barely disguised plot contrivance then it’s still bad writing

[Turnintino]

This is what I think a lot of people miss

It doesn’t matter if you “explain” it in game. If it’s bad writing because it’s basically barely disguised plot contrivance then it’s still bad writing

Sure, but consider that that's basically next to impossible to disguise in a game to begin with lol. At least in the eyes of any experienced gamer, an artificial barrier will always be recognized as a thinly-veiled plot contrivance, something we need to work towards unlocking, and we just kind of have to accept that for what it is. The only way they could've pulled one over on us is by not revealing the existence of the bridge from the onset, which would've been insane in its own way, frankly.

The explanation they came up with is just about as good as any other, I think, in light of that. (And had they moved said explanation from that yellow quest into the MSQ, as they often have in the past, you know someone somewhere would be whinging about the irrelevant exposition wasting our time instead.)

[Cleretic]

This is what I think a lot of people miss

It doesn’t matter if you “explain” it in game. If it’s bad writing because it’s basically barely disguised plot contrivance then it’s still bad writing

Meaningless nonsense masquerading as a metric. What you call 'good' or 'bad' means nothing outside of the world of your mind, you're just claiming subjective feelings as if they're real facts. FFXIV's 'good writing' does exactly the same things, you just gave it a pass.

Do you even remember why you were kept from visiting the Rak'tika Greatwood before the MSQ sent you there? Or the western part of Amh Araeng? No, you don't, because chances are you never even poked at them, but those barriers were actually even more shallow and arbitrary than 'you need a permit they aren't handing out to get to the place you're not supposed to be yet'. Hell, Shadowbringers has maybe the dumbest barrier I've ever seen in a video game, where we're blocked off from southwest Amh Araeng by a big door with a big pressure plate. Not an inaccessible door, not even a locked door: just a door opened by a switch too big for us. That's literally a stock Legend of Zelda puzzle, and not even an exciting or complicated one, but they give it to us as a legitimate narrative barrier.

But Shadowbringers is 'a good expansion', so you either don't care, or are about to defend it.


Recognizing the reasons for the structure of a game doesn't make it lesser, in the same way that recognizing the turning of a page doesn't ruin a book. The fact that you realized that the permit to Shaaloani is there to stop you from getting to a zone you aren't going to yet isn't because 'Dawntrail Bad'; it's because, after four other expansions, you know how Final Fantasy Fourteen structures itself.

Don't reduce your arguments to 'because it's good' or 'because it's bad'. We deserve better than that, and your arguments deserve better than that.

[MikkoAkure]

This is what I think a lot of people miss

It doesn’t matter if you “explain” it in game. If it’s bad writing because it’s basically barely disguised plot contrivance then it’s still bad writing

We’ve had artificial barriers in this game since the beginning. Video games as a whole have had artificial barriers since video games have existed. It’s a nature of the medium and most people just accept them. At least here we have an actual explanation that makes sense.

There are a whole lot of much more valid points of criticism for DT’s story so to dwell on not being able to cross the bridge into a later zone is insanity. Would it have helped instead if they just put up a rope with an ARR “No Entry” sign in it instead?

[Supersnow845]

Sure, but consider that that's basically next to impossible to disguise in a game to begin with lol. At least in the eyes of any experienced gamer, an artificial barrier will always be recognized as a thinly-veiled plot contrivance, something we need to work towards unlocking, and we just kind of have to accept that for what it is. The only way they could've pulled one over on us is by not revealing the existence of the bridge from the onset, which would've been insane in its own way, frankly.

The explanation they came up with is just about as good as any other, I think, in light of that. (And had they moved said explanation from that yellow quest into the MSQ, as they often have in the past, you know someone somewhere would be whinging about the irrelevant exposition wasting our time instead.)

Well think about it this way. Would it even be a problem if we could go to shaaloni right away? What is really the problem of us being able to go there and not put in an artificial block that we can easily see is an artificial block

However my point is wider than just artificial roadblocks. Like in another thread going around people are discussing whether the living memory plot speed whiplash is valid because it was “explained” that the meso terminal wasn’t accessible and how that element change the nature of it being a plot speed change

Meaningless nonsense masquerading as a metric. What you call 'good' or 'bad' means nothing outside of the world of your mind, you're just claiming subjective feelings as if they're real facts. FFXIV's 'good writing' does exactly the same things, you just didn't care before.

Do you even remember why you were kept from visiting the Rak'tika Greatwood before the MSQ sent you there? Or the western part of Amh Araeng? No, you don't, because chances are you never even poked at them, but those barriers were actually even more shallow and arbitrary than 'you need a permit they aren't handing out to get to the place you're not supposed to be yet'. Hell, Shadowbringers has maybe the dumbest barrier I've ever seen in a video game, where we're blocked off from southwest Amh Araeng by a big door on a track. Not an inaccessible door, not even a locked door: just a door too big to open by ourselves. At least Mother 3 blocking a pathway by saying you don't want to step on innocent ants was cute and tongue-in-cheek.

But Shadowbringers is 'a good expansion', so you either don't care, or are about to defend it.


Recognizing the reasons for the structure of a game doesn't make it lesser, in the same way that recognizing the turning of a page doesn't ruin a book. The fact that you realized that the permit to Shaaloani is there to stop you from getting to a zone you aren't going to yet isn't because 'Dawntrail Bad'; it's because, after four other expansions, you know how Final Fantasy Fourteen structures itself.

I’ll point to my above post. How about instead of arguing which roadblock is the stupidest an MMO of all games stops putting in pointless arbitrary zone roadblocks

I’m not going to defend arm areng’s stupid door we can’t open, I’m going to ask WHY IS AN MMO TREATING ZONES LIKE OVERGLORIFIED CORRIDORS. If I want to explore just let me die

I have no idea why you think I am pointing this out because I personally think DT is bad. This is the bloody thread topic, why assume I was “fine” with it in other expansions

[Exmo]

Why is this linear story structured linearly?

[Supersnow845]

Why is this linear story structured linearly?

Why does this linear structured story enforce linear movement through the world even when you aren’t actually engaging with the MSQ

Blocking something like amurot is fine because that’s actually plot integral. Can anyone give me a valid reason why I shouldn’t be allowed to visit shaaloni or western arm areng

Like why enforce a linear world just because the story is linear

[Exmo]

Why does this linear structured story enforce linear movement through the world even when you aren’t actually engaging with the MSQ

Blocking something like amurot is fine because that’s actually plot integral. Can anyone give me a valid reason why I shouldn’t be allowed to visit shaaloni or western arm areng

Like why enforce a linear world just because the story is linear

For better pacing. In many games where players can roam freely, many players get lost in the open world, face choice paralysis, feel overwhelmed by the vastness available to them. That's why the majority of games gate their game world (and often, game systems) behind story progression - it helps point the latter in a direction that has more to offer them at that point in time and so will probably be more fun for them. This is an extremely common thing in videogames, not just FFXIV.

[MikkoAkure]

Why does this linear structured story enforce linear movement through the world even when you aren’t actually engaging with the MSQ

Because the whole game revolves directly around the MSQ ever since HW and the world is directly created based on it. This hasn’t been an open-world MMO since ARR and it’s not exactly a secret.

Blocking something like amurot is fine because that’s actually plot integral. Can anyone give me a valid reason why I shouldn’t be allowed to visit shaaloni or western arm areng

Like why enforce a linear world just because the story is linear

Because we are in Tural because the story put us there and the story has us follow a specific scenario that is happening on the other continent. Besides that, there is absolutely nothing for you to do except “explore” the most boring zone ever provided in an expansion or do some gathering.

There is nothing of tangible value of being allowed to Shaaloani except the subjective feeling of “exploration” which you will get anyway once the area clears. It’s a dead end since the Heritage Found, Solution Nine, and Living Memory zones do not exist in this world yet and all that you’ll accomplish is meeting yet another artificial barrier preventing you from exploring Yyasulani.

[Supersnow845]

For better pacing. In many games where players can roam freely, many players get lost in the open world, face choice paralysis, feel overwhelmed by the vastness available to them. That's why the majority of games gate their game world (and often, game systems) behind story progression - it helps point the latter in a direction that has more to offer them at that point in time and so will probably be more fun for them. This is an extremely common thing in videogames, not just FFXIV.

Yes but there is a difference between gating systems and gating exploration (which is more the thread topic)

Like with shaaloni as an example sure block off side quests that relate to the conflict that goes on in shaaloni but there is no benefit to actually blocking off shaaloni

14 as an MMO struggles with its zones both feeling excessively large and claustrophobically small because they don’t encourage exploration, this isn’t helped that you can only access zones when the MSQ wants you to which makes the world seem inorganic. The locations only exist to serve the current position of the MSQ which makes everything feel fake

Because the whole game revolves directly around the MSQ ever since HW and the world is directly created based on it. This hasn’t been an open-world MMO since ARR and it’s not exactly a secret.

I am once again begging the ffxiv community to realise “because that’s the way it’s always been” is an admission of stagnation, not an excuse