7.2 "formula" for Savage needs to CHANGE

[BigCheez]

Yoshi-P has spoken about the 450 tome cap a few times. It's capped at 450 tomes because they don't want people to feel like they have a big mandatory weekly grind, which I think is fair.

I think savage should be unlocked immediately when the next major patch comes out but IDK if the tome cap needs to be raised. We already have enough time to get the tome items for about 3 roles before then anyway. If someone feels that they need to gear more roles than that (and they don't) they have the option to run an alt.

21 jobs and it still takes 8 weeks to get BiS on one of them.

Getting BiS for one generally means that you're 95% of the way to BiS for multiple other jobs though. This is a pretty disingenuous argument. More like "21 jobs and it still takes up to 8 weeks to get BiS on up to 4 of them".

[Moqi]

Yoshi-P has spoken about the 450 tome cap a few times. It's capped at 450 tomes because they don't want people to feel like they have a big mandatory weekly grind, which I think is fair.

Are we still pretending caps and lockouts are not a tactic to keep people subbed for longer than they need to? Why are you listening to PR lol.

[BigCheez]

Are we still pretending caps and lockouts are not a tactic to keep people subbed for longer than they need to? Why are you listening to PR lol.

Indirectly, sure. They exist to extend the lifespan of the content and I think that's fine. I'm glad a savage tier lasts longer than a week because there aren't many things in XIV that do. I'm sure running out of content too quickly isn't a concern when you're still in Shb though.

[Kohashi]

Yoshi-P has spoken about the 450 tome cap a few times. It's capped at 450 tomes because they don't want people to feel like they have a big mandatory weekly grind, which I think is fair.

I can't talk for others but when it comes to me, I don't need a company to hold my hand and tell me what I am allowed or not to do or how I should spend my own free time. I also think it's fair to either increase the starting cap or dismantle the entire restriction, to begin with, considering there are so many jobs. Also, they should allow to have multiple builds/ gear sets of the same kind. I can still roll on every single loot (since it's in a box) even if I don't need it, so ninja loot prevention is utterly useless.

[BigCheez]

I can't talk for others but when it comes to me, I don't need a company to hold my hand and tell me what I am allowed or not to do or how I should spend my own free time. I also think it's fair to either increase the starting cap or dismantle the entire restriction, to begin with, considering there are so many jobs. Also, they should allow to have multiple builds/ gear sets of the same kind. I can still roll on every single loot (since it's in a box) even if I don't need it, so ninja loot prevention is utterly useless.

Removing the cap would have a lot of side-effects. If there was no tome cap, you'd see ridiculously high gear requirements in week 1 PF and huge portions of the fights would be skipped due to players being massively overgeared before even starting. Savage is tuned for crafted gear and is pretty boring once you gain a few item levels and the mit/heal/dps requirements are much lower (if not non-existent).

[Kohashi]

Removing the cap would have a lot of side-effects. If there was no tome cap, you'd see ridiculously high gear requirements in week 1 PF and huge portions of the fights would be skipped due to players being massively overgeared before even starting. Savage is tuned for crafted gear and is pretty boring once you gain a few item levels and the mit/heal/dps requirements are much lower (if not non-existent).

Fair point but I still don't think it will even matter. People can already do that or after a few weeks as well, so the entire system is just bad to begin with. Also even now after 6 months I still see m1s with req none or 710, considering that you can effectively be around 725 (?). (Jeuno + upgraded crafted gear + COD)
Not to mention, you can just do week 1 and be BiS if you want (I know cases too).

[BigCheez]

Fair point but I still don't think it will even matter. People can already do that or after a few weeks as well, so the entire system is just bad to begin with. Also even now after 6 months I still see m1s with req none or 710, considering that you can effectively be around 725 (?). (Jeuno + upgraded crafted gear + COD)
Not to mention, you can just do week 1 and be BiS if you want (I know cases too).

Yes, people already do that but with the current tome cap, that only forces people to take 3 hunt trains for the 450 cap before they raid. The mandatory weekly power grind is short and painless.

You're also ignoring the fact that you don't even need the gear. There is no use for tome/savage gear for a full 4 months after the savage tier releases when ultimate releases. If you don't prog ultimate on content, i.e. 99.99% of the people complaining about lockout/cap, then there is no use for savage/tome gear ever. Savage is tuned for crafted gear. Anything beyond that is overgeared and trivialises the content.

People aren't setting ilvl restrictions on PFs on prog parties at this point in the tier 1) because they're clueless and that's why they're progging M1S 6 months into the patch cycle and 2) because the majority are so absurdly overgeared that it doesn't matter any more.

You can't be BiS after 1 week. Even if you run 8 way splits (and no one runs splits until week 2), you won't have enough tomes to buy your tome gear and you won't have enough upgrade mats to upgrade the tome gear.

[Kohashi]

I still dont see what’s the problem with tomestone cap/savage loot lockout ?

I hope every person that have a problem with it, have all ultimate cleared on multiple jobs (on patch) ?

Most people that I know at least do savage and Ultimates because they enjoy that type of content.Why would you hinder the people that do enjoy and force them do 1 day/ week instead of allowing more freedom?

Yes, people already do that but with the current tome cap, that only forces people to take 3 hunt trains for the 450 cap before they raid. The mandatory weekly power grind is short and painless.

You're also ignoring the fact that you don't even need the gear. There is no use for tome/savage gear for a full 4 months after the savage tier releases when ultimate releases. If you don't prog ultimate on content, i.e. 99.99% of the people complaining about lockout/cap, then there is no use for savage/tome gear ever. Savage is tuned for crafted gear. Anything beyond that is overgeared and trivialises the content.

People aren't setting ilvl restrictions on PFs on prog parties at this point in the tier 1) because they're clueless and that's why they're progging M1S 6 months into the patch cycle and 2) because the majority are so absurdly overgeared that it doesn't matter any more.

You can't be BiS after 1 week. Even if you run 8 way splits (and no one runs splits until week 2), you won't have enough tomes to buy your tome gear and you won't have enough upgrade mats to upgrade the tome gear.

For that exact reason that gear is really not needed the lock out is stupid. The gear itself is my little prize/reward for completing the fight.

Also as I was saying, people just enjoy doing that type of content with more than 1 class even if they do not main it. I did this tier on every role except tank (because well they got no gear). This will also greatly improve the longevity of the tier instead of people logging in for 1 day when they do the power grind, as you call it, do re-clears, and log out. In addition, you can also help more people learn the fight and also gear up as well, since you won't "steal" the loot just because you cleared that week.

In short and summed up, just let me f-ing play.

[BigCheez]

For that exact reason that gear is really not needed the lock out is stupid. The gear itself is my little prize/reward for completing the fight.

Also as I was saying, people just enjoy doing that type of content with more than 1 class even if they do not main it. I did this tier on every role except tank (because well they got no gear). This will also greatly improve the longevity of the tier instead of people logging in for 1 day when they do the power grind, as you call it, do re-clears, and log out. In addition, you can also help more people learn the fight and also gear up as well, since you won't "steal" the loot just because you cleared that week.

In short and summed up, just let me f-ing play.

Literally the opposite.

If there was no lockout, the content would become irrelevant infinitely more quickly because people would get BiS and quit faster, the fights would become completely trivialised faster, and people would spam the fights and get bored of them faster. Savage is balanced around you not having the gear. I don't understand why you're so convinced that you can't do savage unless you have tome/savage gear? How do you think people clear week 1?

I do think they should change the 2/1/0 chest system to allow people to reclear with friends after they've already cleared though. IMO taking up to 2 players who have already cleared should not reduce the number of chests, 3-4 players should be 1 chest, 5-8 players should be 0 chest. There would be too many people buying lootmaster clears if there were no restrictions at all but the current system makes it way too obnoxious to play with friends if they need a fill.

[VeyaAkemi]

Yoshi-P has spoken about the 450 tome cap a few times. It's capped at 450 tomes because they don't want people to feel like they have a big mandatory weekly grind, which I think is fair.

There are simple ways of effectively increase the cap without increasing the effort to cap out every week, you can:

-Slash the price of capped tome gear, taking almost 2 weeks worth of capped tomes for 1 piece is excessive.
-Increase the capped tome rewards on content, if they boost the cap to 900, but also increase the reward from a level 100 dungeon to 100 per run, nothing was changed in terms of effort.

Ultimately the point of the request is to improve the playerbase's buying power over a time period, and how the buying power is increased is irrelevant, it only increases the grind if you adjust the cap and nothing else around the cap.

And as a side note, maybe it would be fair for people who care about gearing to have a heavier grind, 900 wouldn't even be that much, just more than "Yeah do this one roulette every day for 5 days", I often find myself capping first day of the week..