Hopefully constructive criticism regarding the current state of FFXIV

[TaleraRistain]

The frustrating things is that we know that the devs can create interesting dungeons, they just stopped for some reason.

They stopped because the community complained every time they were presented with a dungeon that slowed down their breakneck speedrun for even a second. So no more interesting side rooms or mobs with unique abilities because that makes roulettes take 0.00000001% longer. And that's just unacceptable.

It's why you see people bail when they get Aurum Vale or Pharos Sirius or the like in DF. I had a Stone Vigil Hard the other day where just one dps remained when I joined in progress as a healer.

Really a lesson in being careful what you ask for.

[VeyaAkemi]

I had a Stone Vigil Hard the other day where just one dps remained when I joined in progress as a healer.

I don't think I had a roulette of Stone Vigil Hard that didn't have at least one person bailing in a long time, people act like Cuca Fera is this incredibly insurmountable boss when it is really easy to handle if you are even trying to get the mechanics around it, and you can "cheese"(it feels wrong to call it cheese because it's still effort but it opens so much room for mistake on that fight it becomes difficult to wipe) it really easily by having the Healer run around instead of staying at a cannon, as you can heal the knights and let the fight last as long as you need it to, the last boss being a fully telegraphed avoidable boss that ignores enmity is also very unique, and I saw arguments start to break out in that dungeon because they thought the Tank was messing up all of sudden, which I have on occasion been able to defuse by explaining how the boss actually works.

It's a very unique dungeon with design that should be praised but even now I see people failing to handle it.

[TaleraRistain]

I don't think I had a roulette of Stone Vigil Hard that didn't have at least one person bailing in a long time, people act like Cuca Fera is this incredibly insurmountable boss when it is really easy to handle if you are even trying to get the mechanics around it, and you can "cheese"(it feels wrong to call it cheese because it's still effort but it opens so much room for mistake on that fight it becomes difficult to wipe) it really easily by having the Healer run around instead of staying at a cannon, as you can heal the knights and let the fight last as long as you need it to, the last boss being a fully telegraphed avoidable boss that ignores enmity is also very unique, and I saw arguments start to break out in that dungeon because they thought the Tank was messing up all of sudden, which I have on occasion been able to defuse by explaining how the boss actually works.

It's a very unique dungeon with design that should be praised but even now I see people failing to handle it.

Don't even need to cheese it. Cuca Fera's an incredibly easy fight if everyone stays on the cannons, kills the adds that attack other cannons and the NPCs, and interrupts the roomwide while dropping dps on boss as necessary. But people drop like flies in Dzemael too because they don't want to stay in the purple and be safe. I enjoy getting these dungeons in roulettes, but unfortunately they're few and far between these days.

[LilaIronman]

They stopped because the community complained every time they were presented with a dungeon that slowed down their breakneck speedrun for even a second. So no more interesting side rooms or mobs with unique abilities because that makes roulettes take 0.00000001% longer. And that's just unacceptable.

It's why you see people bail when they get Aurum Vale or Pharos Sirius or the like in DF. I had a Stone Vigil Hard the other day where just one dps remained when I joined in progress as a healer.

Really a lesson in being careful what you ask for.

Tbf the dungeons you are describing are nowhere near a good dungeon design.. all those are just kinda bad because of the missing ability variety and randomness from mobs. Stone Vigil Hard, rarely anyone knows how to kill the second boss and more times than not in DF, people do not care to listen/read chat if you explain something.

[TaleraRistain]

Tbf the dungeons you are describing are nowhere near a good dungeon design.. all those are just kinda bad because of the missing ability variety and randomness from mobs. Stone Vigil Hard, rarely anyone knows how to kill the second boss and more times than not in DF, people do not care to listen/read chat if you explain something.

What is good dungeon design then? The ARR optional dungeons are chock full of unique mechanics like SV Hard. Mechanics that make you think outside the box. Isn't this the type of thing we want to see optional content that can branch out a bit from the normal MSQ experience?

[SXTC]

What are you talking about? You can litterally put all the mechanics in a handful of boxes, nothing "out of the box" about it xD

[TaleraRistain]

What are you talking about? You can litterally put all the mechanics in a handful of boxes, nothing "out of the box" about it xD

Where do you see the unique characteristics of these fights elsewhere in the game?

- the Cuca Fera fight in SV HM
- Diabolos in Lost City of Amdapor
- the purple crystals in Dzemael
- the Zu in Pharos Sirius
- Hullbreaker kraken boss
- Arioch in Lost City of Amdapor

[AyumiCosplayGlam]

Interestingly enough, those are some of the bosses i hate the most.
Not because they are hard, but because its annoying that they have completely different fight design than the other 95% of the game and you basicly have to flip a switch inside your head to think like ARR Square Enix and deal with its old shenanigans.

The way i see it is that its better to fix the outliers so that they are more aligned with the rest of the game, rather than starting implementing unintuitive gimmicks like those randomly in newer fights.

This is why i am advocating for a rework of Coils of Bahamut in particular and Crystal Tower for a long time, because they represent a fight design philosophy that does not exist anymore. It misrepresents what raiding actually look like for new players and regardless if they like it or dislike it, they are ultimately misled about what to expect later from the game.

[VeyaAkemi]

I actually had a run of Pharos this week where fate decided to give me double DNC as DPS, and they managed were positioned just right to hit every egg in the room with double Standard Step, I never seen the Zu mother so pissed, and proceed to just nuke the party in a second, we got it the second time, but it was funny to watch shit hit the fan so spectacularly.

[Absurdity]

Interestingly enough, those are some of the bosses i hate the most.
Not because they are hard, but because its annoying that they have completely different fight design than the other 95% of the game and you basicly have to flip a switch inside your head to think like ARR Square Enix and deal with its old shenanigans.

The way i see it is that its better to fix the outliers so that they are more aligned with the rest of the game, rather than starting implementing unintuitive gimmicks like those randomly in newer fights.

This is why i am advocating for a rework of Coils of Bahamut in particular and Crystal Tower for a long time, because they represent a fight design philosophy that does not exist anymore. It misrepresents what raiding actually look like for new players and regardless if they like it or dislike it, they are ultimately misled about what to expect later from the game.

Sure, it's easier to fix the outliers and it might give new players a better idea of how the rest of the game is. But it doesn't fix the core issue, that the "modern" design is both incredibly stale and boring.
The fact that those are, in hindsight, considered outliers in the first place is exactly the problem.