I don't care if they deal damage, give us back the old gap closers.

[CuteBucket]

Genuinely the loss of Plunge makes me just not want to play DRK as much. It sounds trivial, but the reason I play and gravitate to certain jobs is because I simply like the look of how they fight. Good animations and sound effects are a HUGE reason people like certain jobs, but it's like the devs just don't see that. So they remove things but shift the potencies of attacks around so that the numbers balance out and then scratch their heads at why some players are upset. It's not about the balance and the numbers. A Dragoon who jumps less feels less like a dragoon, and so I don't want to play them as much anymore.

I don't play any of the classes I've been drawn to to do the most damage. I play them because there's just something about them that clicks with me and feels good to play, thought that's been getting slowly whittled away at over the years. I just don't care about being at the top of the damage charts or clearing week one or any of that. As long as the jobs can clear the content, that's good enough for me.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong circles, but I don't recall any tanks I've ever raided with complaining about weaving gap closers during burst, and even if some did, this can be solved by
- Practice your rotation until its second nature and you can hit those buttons in your sleep
- Changing gap closers so that they can only be used X amount of space away from a boss, so it's now JUST a utility button for certain moments and not something to spam during burst as it would be a DPS loss to run away from the boss, while keeping the old damage and animations for the moments they are needed in a fight to jump back into position in between GCDs.
- Remove damage but keep the same animations because everyone likes them even if them not doing damage doesn't make logical sense, because there's already plenty of stuff in our wacky JRPG boss battles that doesn't make logical sense anyway, so what else is new?

[Derio]

I would like them back. But if they do they have to be unique and the non damage gap closer needs to stay because of utility.

[VeyaAkemi]

Gap closers could have a range requirement, like Monks Shoulder Tackle had in ARR. Then it would be a dps loss to walk away from the boss just to use the gap closer.

I would be okay with this, a big issue that I have with old gap closers is that them doing damage created an issue around them that the fact they have potency means they should be used for damage, I don't like the idea that you may be out of your utility move because the boss moved 5 seconds after your burst window so now you are SOL, utility should exist for utility, it's already scarce enough as a concept in this game as is, if there was a secondary system in place to prevent this, it'd be ideal.

That said, I am actually a big fan of Shadowstride, it feels much more thematically fitting in DRK than Plunge ever did, Pluge is just a leaping slash, and people act like it is vital to DRK's identity purely because it was there from the start, but to me, a magic-focusd darkness warrior using Darkness magic to enhance their speed momentarily feels great, even feels more refined, like a show of control and skill over darkness that they can use just enough to reach their target, rather than acting like a brute, it would be a shame for me to lose Shadowstride after it was given to me, I get that it sucks for people who liked Plunge more, but there is just no ideal way of handling this, either way a group will be deprived of the animation they like most.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Personally I prefer the good old Plunge. Due to how late the server responds, Shadowstride makes the game think I’m generating aggro from 20y even when I’m already up in the enemy’s face. What ends up happening is the other mob runs past me toward where I initiated Shadowstride. If they’re able to update my location to the server faster, then perhaps I’ll be at least indifferent to Shadowstride. Totally doubtful the dev can—or rather, willing to pull this off. It’s clear that whoever green lighted this button never plays anywhere but within their server’s back closet & pretend everybody else does the same.

Old damage component IMHO was just a bonus. I know, I know, every little damage adds up. I still personally prefer choices to use the button for damage or mobility vs today’s free mobility. If there’s anything good that Shadowstride addition did, it’s to make burst window less crowded. Then again, Plunge would’ve been the first in prio to drop if you need something else to weave in its place anyway.

At least PvP Plunge still exists… lol.

[mewlynx]

I miss Plunge a lot. I don't even really play DRK but the sound effect was excellent and the visual of the DRK jumping into a pack of enemies was unique amongst the tanks and fitting to the job. The new gap closer looks okay, DRK got off way better than GNB and DRK in that regard, but the silent teleport leaves a lot to be desired.

[Timultt]

I personally cannot care less if the gap closers deal damage. It's a gap closer first and foremost. The gap closers could have the same potency as Flying Sardine or the same potency as Dragonfire Dive and I'd still use them as just that; gap closers. The problem is they replaced the damaging ones that had great animations with crappy dashes that do nothing but make me feel like I'm wasting time. Thunderclap works for monk. Aetherial Manipulation works for Black Mage. Plunge worked for Dark Knight, Spineshatter Dive worked for Dragoon. Winged Glide does not work for Dragoon. Jumps are integral to the job's identity. Shadowstride works for Dark Knight but it takes away from the identity of the job. Leaping into a horde of enemies was a great look for Dark Knight as a job. These changes don't work out for these jobs.

[Shougun]

Genuinely the loss of Plunge makes me just not want to play DRK as much. It sounds trivial, but the reason I play and gravitate to certain jobs is because I simply like the look of how they fight. Good animations and sound effects are a HUGE reason people like certain jobs, but it's like the devs just don't see that. So they remove things but shift the potencies of attacks around so that the numbers balance out and then scratch their heads at why some players are upset. It's not about the balance and the numbers. A Dragoon who jumps less feels less like a dragoon, and so I don't want to play them as much anymore.

I don't play any of the classes I've been drawn to to do the most damage. I play them because there's just something about them that clicks with me and feels good to play, thought that's been getting slowly whittled away at over the years. I just don't care about being at the top of the damage charts or clearing week one or any of that. As long as the jobs can clear the content, that's good enough for me.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong circles, but I don't recall any tanks I've ever raided with complaining about weaving gap closers during burst, and even if some did, this can be solved by
- Practice your rotation until its second nature and you can hit those buttons in your sleep
- Changing gap closers so that they can only be used X amount of space away from a boss, so it's now JUST a utility button for certain moments and not something to spam during burst as it would be a DPS loss to run away from the boss, while keeping the old damage and animations for the moments they are needed in a fight to jump back into position in between GCDs.
- Remove damage but keep the same animations because everyone likes them even if them not doing damage doesn't make logical sense, because there's already plenty of stuff in our wacky JRPG boss battles that doesn't make logical sense anyway, so what else is new?

"Game feel" is exceptionally important, doesn't sound trivial to me at all. It's difficult to describe but I think you can more easily example this by talking about games that just hit you with zen. Where the guns and movements feel perfect, or like how a souls game tends to have something that "makes sense" but souls copy cats feel clunky and your brain is constantly aware of the game.

Movement is a core element of feel, imo.

Also never had issue weaving my movement skills, so I was surprised it was removed. Like so what if regular Joe isn't doing it in low level content, and in high level content isn't that .. maybe a good thing that helps set someone apart? Alternatively at least think of the feel / visual and provide something better?

I miss Plunge a lot. I don't even really play DRK but the sound effect was excellent and the visual of the DRK jumping into a pack of enemies was unique amongst the tanks and fitting to the job. The new gap closer looks okay, DRK got off way better than GNB and DRK in that regard, but the silent teleport leaves a lot to be desired.

Because this thread popped out a few times I couldn't help but passively think about some of the jobs, so taking the above theme lol here are some shower thought riffs:

Dark Knight - When enemies are at least 10 yalms away, shadowstride is Abyssal Plunge. Plunge shares timer with unmend (as in you CANNOT weave these two, its one or the other). Abyssal Plunge, new effect when this skill is the first ability YOU use on an enemy it ALSO deals AoE damage (nice shadow effect) with increased enmity (you can technically, quality, now pull with this..). Honestly, thinking buff the damage during first strike, and just unmend damage in other situations.

Thoughts: plunge is epic looking- leaping with a wave of darkness on impact sounds neat and the function of a high quality pull sounds nice.


Gun Breaker - Pulsar Surge. Rushes the target, VERY quickly, and explodes at the end (150 target, 50 to nearby but smaller AoE than Dark Knight), but also applies to self a debuff called re-stabilizing which temporarily absorbs UP TO x (150) OUTGOING potency (meaning it self balances itself for the purpose of the kit). Once either the debuff is consumed OR falls off, stabilized replaces it. During either of these de/buffs you can freely cast Pulsar Surge (which might now be called blinding orbit), that skill QUICKLY dashes you to the other side of any target within 10 yalms and applies a disorientation debuff in an AoE which causes monsters to ignore enmity generation from non-tanks for a few seconds (and increases your own). Insanely low cooldown during the 5-ish seconds the two de/buffs exists. To the point if you really wanted you could dash every second without challenge AND weave other skills in (oGCD, no disruption of other skills while using).

Thoughts: gun breaker feels, imo, rather lacking the mobility I personally imagine from a gunsword wielding job from a FF game. I imagine some silly slice and dice hyper mobility. This kind of adds to that. The enmity ignore is a tiny cherry but I imagine it might be neat if we ever get enmity management back, and primarily its just for feeling VERY mobile. If you use it on the same target you dash to their back side / vs their front side. Honestly would like to see ANOTHER movement, capable, skill added just to really give them that snappy movement vibe. Also key that the dashes don't interrupt other attacks, like you should be able to be orbiting AND using other skills at the same time without the game saying "wot? no wait in line" (easy to double weave by design, movement is an easy option if you want it).


Dragoon - stop destroying jumps, just stop lol. Honestly just make all the jumps mobility skills. If you want to return to location you press the jump skill anytime during the jump animation or a second-ish after landing (not any jump skill, specifically the one you used to jump with). All jumps leap you to location, all jumps can leap you back to cast point. If utility is a large concern, ALSO add a passive that once every 30 - 60 seconds any enemy you currently have engaged can be leapt to via a melee weaponskill (as in your 3 yalm weaponskill now has 20 yalm range and leaps you to the target).

Thoughts:.. Dragoon jumps please allow them to jump... its that simple >.<. This is another job I think that should be uncannily mobile. Added use could be by allowing the player to slightly modify landing / position WHILE in flight (akin to some games allow you to direct where you're falling, or perhaps how some of Demon Hunter's skills work in WoW). Also perhaps for potential skill play and "yes its a jump, you can jump into a bad thing" a passive like wind bristled scales which grants an % max hp shield for a few seconds after jumping.