8.0 rework will be a joke

[Lilapop]

Feel like I should point out, with how lackluster DT is being, future patches not looking exactly great either, people relying on an "exploration" zone to save the expansion... why is there such huge faith in 8.0?

[CaedemSanguis]

Heavensward & even Stromblood got a lot of backlash from the playerbase.

People constantly complained if their favorite job wasn't part of meta. Most of the people complaining aren't even participating in World Race nor clearing Savage week 1.

Non-meta comps can still clear Savage week 3~4 just fine with tome gear & Savage loot drops. Yet, people still complained just because they want to feel good about playing a meta job.

There were a lot of problems in PF. People were locking out/kicking certain jobs because they're not part of meta. Despite the fact that it was probably week 4+ where forcing meta is redundant.

the problem was Gordias (gear check) not the balance, it's like if M4s or P8s had a "i730" "i630" min ilvl requirement

[Zakuyia]

The problem is not just the devs. Its the community. This community does not accept uniqueness. Dont forget ppl who were protesting against viper design saying it was too hard to use vs those demanding not to change. If SE wants to do this right. They need to ignore ppl who refuse to learn to play these jobs. At least thats a theory. Still this community needs to embrace change first.

[Zakuyia]

Feel like I should point out, with how lackluster DT is being, future patches not looking exactly great either, people relying on an "exploration" zone to save the expansion... why is there such huge faith in 8.0?

Its called copium / coping.

[Lilapop]

The problem is not just the devs. Its the community. This community does not accept uniqueness. Dont forget ppl who were protesting against viper design saying it was too hard to use vs those demanding not to change. If SE wants to do this right. They need to ignore ppl who refuse to learn to play these jobs. At least thats a theory. Still this community needs to embrace change first.

It's also, people unhappy are more likely to be vocal than people who are happy. For every jaded unhappy person here in the echo chamber, there's probably a dozen happy people who play the game without interacting with the forums or reddit. Half the people on the forums/reddit can't even agree upon what they want, the other half can't read, the rest are "skill issue git good"

[Dzian]

It's also, people unhappy are more likely to be vocal than people who are happy. For every jaded unhappy person here in the echo chamber, there's probably a dozen happy people who play the game without interacting with the forums or reddit. Half the people on the forums/reddit can't even agree upon what they want, the other half can't read, the rest are "skill issue git good"

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain. The rest churn. A lesson here is that companies should not view absence of feedback as a sign of satisfaction. The true enemy is indifference.”

Source

That last part is important. Silence does not equal satisfaction or happiness

Even the SE devs said they "apparantly" learnt this back in the old days.


Number 3!

[Yeol]

the problem was Gordias (gear check) not the balance, it's like if M4s or P8s had a "i730" "i630" min ilvl requirement

Yep, it was mostly gear-gated. Since fights only dropped random gear that was job locked + 2 drops instead of 3. Meaning you can go few weeks without members getting any useful loot from Savage.

[Valence]

Part of the reward for playing a high-ceiling job correctly is dealing more damage. This doesn't mean that more punishing jobs aren't fun to play. HW DRK & MCH come to mind. It felt satisfying & rewarding when playing them correctly. They were punishing to mistakes, but still fun. Others might disagree & say they had a bad design. This entire topic about job design & what people find fun is subjective. What we should agree on is that more effort should be rewarded with more damage. Equating high effort with low effort is not fair.

I agree with everything you said except for the part of damage output differences based on skill, for the simple reason that I do believe in good accessibility across the board and high ceilings across the board as well.

[Lilapop]

Number 3!

People complain about everything though? One person's complaint can contradict another person's complaint entirely? Things along the lines of "this is bad" doesn't really say anything either. Why is it bad? How can it be better? This community can't even agree what the terms "casual" and "hardcore" mean, the "complaints" are hardly much better.

[Oizen]

What I expect from 8.0 "Job Identity" Patch:
-Intervene Deleted, Onslaught deleted, All Tanks get the same no damage gap closer

What I want from it:
-WAR gets to keep damage gap closers but gets a lot of them
-DRK can either do the shadowstride gapcloser, or do it with no target and teleport forward similar to en avant or hell's ingress
-GNB can gap close to allies or the boss, and has a shorter CD on it
-PLD can gap close to allies or the boss with a standard CD, but when you gap close to allies they get a shield


Or something like that, this shits so easy to give jobs their own flavor and fit into their identities, I just don't think SE cares.