Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Mawlzy]

Okay, so learn and memorize them. Like I more or less said, make the effort to learn.

Why are you overcomplicating it? You can literally say you haven't done the fight before, or that you're a beginner raider and there will be groups doing it blind who will pick you up.

I was making a point through humor; swing and a miss apparently.

Suki, I suspect you are well-meaning and you have a nice name, but you're clearly coming from a hardcore perspective. To you (please correct me if I'm wrong), a significant motivation when playing a game is to get "better" at it. By which you mean being able to clear increasingly difficult PvE content.

I have suggested previously that the best FF14 player is the one who derives the most enjoyment from the game. For a "casual" player (who may play several hours a day), enjoyment has absolutely nothing to do with raiding. They either cannot make that transition, or find the idea of repeating the same fight over and over again to be completely tedious. This and similar threads have been provoked by the fact that the kind of content casuals enjoy is currently massively lacking.

If you take a vegan to a restaurant and they are staring gloomily at the menu, suggesting they'd really enjoy the beef wellington is a teeny bit tone deaf.

The situation has been made far worse since the CAR release by some hardcore raiders here and elsewhere conforming to the worst stereotypes of that community.

Raiders and casual players derive pleasure from FF14 in completely different ways. Both you and SE seem to be telling casual players that everything will be just fine if they'd embrace a playstyle that is completely foreign to them, thereby greatly compounding their frustration with the current state of the game and some of its players.

[ovIm]

So OvIm...

Who is right? And who is wrong? Because it is NOT both of them. Either Aldorouge is wilfully lieing and making shit up? Or Supersnow is being and idjut in declaring something never happened just because 'they' were not witness to it... and needs to STFU.

But which is it? And I notice you didn't weigh in on them, and did on me - the casual.
I don't take offence, and you are absolutely right, that I need to chill
But I'm not 'impressed' by people who 'sit-on-the-fences'.
So which is it?

I have not singled you out for any reason, I merely read your posts as very aggravated and angry, while calling for a piece of content to be removed. That was my motivation to post here. weighing on you because you are "casual" is not my intention here. I'm a retired raider myself, I shun away from "room with boss" content for a couple of reasons.

Alas, it is not a matter of "who is right, who is wrong". Supersnow845 may not have encountered posts of people dismissing the lack of casual content. There are a lot of posts in this forum, its rather high volume, so sometimes, things are easy to miss. Or they are dismissing those voices as "unimportant", because they are not constructive. I cannot say, I am not in their head. The core of that sentence is however clear to me - those that actually objectively look at what the game offers will see that there are elements that are sorely lacking.
Piling on each other though, instead of pointing a finger at Square Enix, is not helping. We all are (I hope) in the same boat of wanting FF14 to be the best game it can be.

Because of the casual thing, I would like to defend myself: If you read any other of my posts here (which, I won't ask you to do), you will see that I mostly criticize Square Enix for their decisions in handling the gameplay aspects of Final Fantasy 14. My stance is that I want FF14 to be filled with content for every kind of player. Combat instances for those that love rigid timelines, different ones for those that love a more variable approach. A healthy difficulty curve for players to chose how much effort they feel like giving. For that, we not only need more diverse content offers, but also for Square Enix to not shy away from experiments. After seeing (live, I want to add) how they fumbled with Diadem, removing content is not something I consider good form.
The release of Chaotic has caused a noticeable ripple in parts of this games community for a myriad of reasons. It is still better to keep it where it is and learn from what has happened than to remove it and act like it never existed.

[LateNightSuki]

Well no, I have never been a hardcore raider, and I appreciate the compliment(?). Actually this is coming from a very midcore/casual raider. I have been playing this game since I was young/2.1/Coil. Through each expansion I looked up guides on how to better play my class, not even just to raid, so I could make dungeons go smoother as well. I improved my performance not only for myself, but because it's kind of just basic etiquette to do so, and not just press random buttons to do the lowest amount of damage and make dungeons take like 30 minutes. It also left me in a position to give advice to other players, so they could improve as well, even if it's as basic as don't use Cure 1, use Cure 2 if you have it unlocked and the reason why.

I actually haven't touched the new raids, my perspective is coming solely from my experience over the years of raiding I have done, which was Coil/Alex/Panda. I also work in housing, and I very much enjoy the social side of the game. But people are choosing to lock themselves out of available content which I can only assume is the lack of motivation to actually do better, and then complaining about it, which I find the idea of puzzling at the least. Is the main appeal of the endgame NOT raiding and extremes and the newly introduced CAR? Anybody can make the transition, if they actually make the effort lol.

You can raid casually and derive great enjoyment from it while also wiping over and over, and then eventually clearing, if you find the right group of people to do it with. I have wiped for countless hours and loved it from the numerous statics I've been in over the years, you just have to make the littlest bit of effort to find your people. Anecdotal, I know, but it is something I firmly believe in that you can do anything in this game if you find the right people to do it with.

Also sorry if my posts are wonky, I don't really use the forums as you can see from my (4) posts.

[Mawlzy]

snip.

It sounds like you respect those you play with. I try to too. Like you, I study guides for the rotations of the jobs I play with other players. I can confidently heal, tank, and dps up to about level 60 dungeons. I'm comfortable in dungeons up to 80 or so with MCH.

Unfortunately, I accept that in a new expansion I am likely going to be the weak link in any light party, hence I run the dungeons with NPCs who don't complain (except sometimes Y'shtola gives me the side eye when I'm tanking and flub my mits). Consequently, I tend to avoid on-patch content that can only be completed with other players. My performance in M1N, despite taking copious notes from a video guide, confirmed I should not inflict myself on others. And I'm absolutely fine with that.

My personal frustration has been compounded by the fact I enjoy PvP, and the 7.1 changes were... not well-received by those of us who play the mode a lot. So from my perspective, SE mucked up my favorite evergreen, repeatable content.

To answer your question: "Is the main appeal of the endgame NOT raiding and extremes and the newly introduced CAR?" For the majority of NA players, no, it is not. (I have a friend with six Island Sanctuaries who is at 94 in the MSQ.) I genuinely believe I'm incapable of clearing such endgame content without being a serious drain on the team, if at all, and attempting to do so doesn't interest me in the slightest.

[IceEyes]

Anybody can make the transition, if they actually make the effort lol

This is something on the language of successful success.

Why you just cant accept not everyone enjoy fight format, like in modern FF14. This is just not fun. Do all by guides not fun, learn even fight from 0 with a lot of wipes not fun, body checks not fun, meta-gaming in MMO (like picto in FRU) not fun, strict selection in PF not fun. It might be fun with friends (if you're on the same wave, of course), but you could just as easily do anything and it would still be fun.

Yes, everyone can do that, but why u think people avoiding that?

Most of grind types in this game not fun. Most of crafters sit on macros application. That not fun. Most of raiders whom i know personally used any applications what up their QoL and that not fun.

I basically don’t understand the concept of a fight in which I can manage my class well, but this is only a ridiculous 10% of the success of the raid, because nothing depends on me except DPS and throwing debuffs / buffs into timing.

I'd prefer more fights where can easily сarry casuals, which is based on personal game my experience and not whether someone stayed on wrong place or not.

People don't like to learn\repeat anything, unless you are a special, rare "breed" of players.
This does not mean that casuals do not want to do anything and avoid any type of content, it only means that fight content that is more difficult then MSQ have very a high difficulty jump that casuals are not interested in.

[Erzaa]

Why you just cant accept not everyone enjoy fight format, like in modern FF14.

This does not mean that casuals do not want to do anything and avoid any type of content, it only means that content that is more difficult then MSQ have very a high difficulty jump that casuals are not interested in.

34 pages until someone could explain it succinctly. Thank you. Basically this.

[ovIm]

Why you just cant accept not everyone enjoy fight format, like in modern FF14. This is just not fun.

Thats a big one for me. The fight format for higher level content, that this game has established over the past few expansions, is just exhausting imho. Feels like a big memorization game where the solution is always the exact same, with most of the gameplay being delegated away from classes, and onto the fights themselves.
Sure, fights in earlier expansions were simpler. But classes felt more engaging and required you to pay a bit more attention to how you press your buttons right.

I can see why there are people that enjoy the McDonaldization approach here, but looking at the some players opinions, its certainly not for everyone, and I hope CS3 somehow manages to develop different kind of fight design paradigms in the future. We still have no information as to what the new style of battle content supposedly coming in 7.2 is going to be.

[Supersnow845]

Yeah “just play savage” isn’t the right answer to the lack of casual content

I also don’t like the direction of modern savage so I currently don’t play it

[LateNightSuki]

Sorry, are normal raids not casual content? I think you need to have a little more faith in yourself, as do other casual (those with an aversion to endgame content) players. You are allowed to be new, especially to new content. Also, if I'm understanding correctly, you don't feel comfortable in dungeons above 80? I would appreciate if you would explain why if that's possible, although I will not press you of course.

You say despite taking copious notes from a video guide you struggled, failed and then gave up to, putting it bluntly. How many times did you actually try though? Nobody is expecting you to have a perfect run after a few rounds of watching a video or even after a few rounds of doing the fight for the first time. Theory is nothing without actually physically doing it a few times and getting used to the movement and the timing of mechanics, etc.

Your worries of being a drain on the team sounds like more of a personal issue, and while I sympathize as I have been there myself, at the end of the day this is a video game and none of us know each other and it's just really not that deep. While I may loathe someone in the moment for making the roulette taking longer than it needs to, I am more than likely not going to see them again and forget. Sometimes we think about ourselves a little too much, what we can do is ask for advice and criticism on what we can do better, which are what learning parties are for! And you will naturally find people who believe in you and encourage you, even if it's only a stranger in a PF for 1-2 hours.

Accepting that you are a weak link and a drain is nothing but a wall created by, well, what I can only assume is insecurity. But I promise I don't mean that in a harsh way.

[CidHeiral]

I've already explained why it's partially on me and partially not, but I guess you won't be satisfied until I blame myself 100% and pretend that the game's community is all sugar and roses like you do.

It's 100% on you, but it's not about blaming yourself. It's about taking personal responsibility for your circumstances. It's like when people want to start going to the gym and they say "oh well there's too many people and one of them made a rude comment and I'm tired and it's too far too walk" etc etc. At the end of the day you either have the motivation to make it happen or you don't.

And of course the community isn't all sugar and roses! I've run into plenty of jerks in this game over the years but they're not difficult to avoid and as much as you're trying to paint otherwise those people are in the extreme minority.

Again, if you don't want to try there's nothing wrong with that, my point isn't to convince you to do savage. My point if that if you're unhappy where you're at you're the only one keeping yourself there.

Still, you do seem like the rare hardcore player who isn't completely dismissive. I think I can finally start counting them on TWO hands now.

Thanks, although I hope you see the irony in commending me for not being dismissive when you're dismissing an entire group of people.

I meant it when I said I think you can do anything you put your mind to, I think that's true for everyone, but only if you get out of your own way.

They do exist elsewhere in the content I have reached, Shadow of Mhach being the place I really started to notice it because it has some brutal mechanics I've failed (though in the case of Doom, that's not entirely on me), and it was a large part of why I haven't even tried Return to Ivalice, because apparently its even harder and thus, I expect I'll run into even meaner individuals.

I promise you 99.9999999999999999% of people in alliance raids do not care if you die. You could die ten times on every boss, nobody cares. Everyone is aware it's casual content. The odd time someone does say something just right click their name and mute them. Problem solved.