Zepla's Dawntrail MSQ Analysis

[BigCheez]

My super duper HYPEEER far-reach tinfoilhat theory is that the story was AT LEAST partially written by AI.

I mean...

I believe that generative AI has the potential not only to reshape what we create, but also to fundamentally change the processes by which we create

We also intend to be aggressive in applying AI and other cutting-edge technologies to both our content development and our publishing functions. In the short term, our goal will be to enhance our development productivity and achieve greater sophistication in our marketing efforts.

https://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/n...esident_4.html

We can't know but I really wouldn't be surprised if at least some of Dawntrail was AI generated. It would explain why it adheres so rigidly to the formula of previous content while being completely devoid of the soul or charm. I could see it being a case of dialogue being AI generated with the intention of swapping it out for human-written dialogue later and then that just not happening. Either that or the devs have given up and are just serving slop.

[Jeeqbit]

If they were actually using AI, they'd probably be able to churn out everything many times faster since you could, for example, get AI to create an environment and textures and throw together story boards, characters, dialogue and a random mechanical dance using the list of mechanics from Hall of the Novice as a base to choose from. The only reason I think they won't do that is because it's controversial and because the current system works for CBU3 so they don't want to tamper with it. However, I've no doubt the rest of SE is going to focus on it where they can starting with areas that are less controversial.

However I think I do remember SE hiring lots of people for these sort of roles a while ago.

[Larirawiel]

If game so bad why you still subbed?

Because the people, who write here still care. Other people just unsub. And if enough people unsub then the game closes.




Cheers

[Lilapop]

The idea of an "MSQ Package" is very worrying to me because I can see it, and its far worse than just the exact same bad guy 4 times in a row.
8 Endwalker dungeons (6 MSQ + 2 Extra) and 8 Dawntrail Dungeons (6MSQ + 2 Extra) with the exact same level spreads
3 Trials In Endwalker at 83, 89, and 90 vs 3 Trials in Dawntrail at 93, 99, and 100
Scions randomly and mysteriously hanging rejoin your party before anything happens, solely to justify the trust system
Then what Zelpa mentioned about the Final boss being a big bad we just go and enter the memories of for the last dungeon.


The devs really do just go through the motions and deliver bare minimum based on existing formulas huh

That's what happens when Square barely puts any funding back into FF14 despite most of their funding probably coming from FF14.

[DPZ2]

That's what happens when Square barely puts any funding back into FF14 despite most of their funding probably coming from FF14.

1st half of fiscal year (ended September 2024)

MMO Division

Net Sales: 32.4 billion yen
operating income: 13.1 billion yen


The numbers include sales of the current expansion, which increased operating income greatly. [Q1 was 6.6 billion yen on 12.5 billion net sales)

Operating income is what the company uses to purchase shares, pay dividends, fund new development, and run the company as a whole.

Seems to me that putting almost 20 billion yen into the game itself (operating costs, salaries, marketing, whatever) can't be considered "barely".

Blame the company for whatever (unsatisfying expansion, mediocre gameplay, not enough shills on Twitch), but don't use "this game gets barely any of the proceeds", because that, at least, can be disproved.

[Larirawiel]

Seems to me that putting almost 20 billion yen into the game itself (operating costs, salaries, marketing, whatever) can't be considered "barely".

They put 20 billions into the MMO division. And this division is way more than FF14 only.




Cheers

[Kaurhz]

That's what happens when Square barely puts any funding back into FF14 despite most of their funding probably coming from FF14.

IMO, the issue with the game isn't necessarily tied to funding, with the exception of funding for additional staff to expand the game.

But most of the core issues with the game is related to direction and content pipeline. Like the budget matters, but it matters a hell of a lot more for how they use it.

They are more intent with giving the same downtrodden McDonalds formula than what they are with thinking how they can improve their content pipeline, because they absolutely could improve it dramatically without dramatic budget requirements.

[ZXN]

I've watched the video and have pretty much had most of the same thoughts about the overall feeling of 7.0 as Zepla had. Even though I did really enjoy my initial play-through of the MSQ, looking back at it critically just revealed an alarming amount of issues from the characters to the story and everything in-between and beyond.

I hated Endwalker. Didn't care for most of it from beginning to end, and the post-patch drained me so much I unsubscribed for over a year. Then I played Dawntrail and somehow it made me wish I wasn't so harsh about Endwalker.

Most of the VA's sounded lifeless, which could be mostly blamed on the probable lack of any direction for their voice lines if that really was the case. Story almost feels like in some places it could've been written by an AI with the prompts "Friendship; Peace; Happiness; Smiles" from beginning to end and just has some really baffling decisions done to resolve issues. One single character essentially being a Black-Hole Sue by being the only reason anything and everything gets done/solved and making it so that without them literally nothing can move forward in anyway, which only gets worse when they added all that on top of the fact they decided to have said new main character speed-run "The greatest hits of your Warrior of Light" with pretty much everything they accomplish in the story.

Who really knows if there were a bunch of drastic changes while it was being developed, or if this really was the plan from the very beginning, but when I look back at Dawntrail it was all just...really odd with everything they decided to do with it from beginning to end.

Now I am looking forward to it being revealed that Sphene is Wuk Lamat's reflection and they pull an Ardbert and fuse together so that Wuk Lamat can round off her expansion by having her Endsinger moment and defeat the Embodiment of Death, Necron.

[Fawkes]

The idea of an "MSQ Package" is very worrying to me because I can see it, and its far worse than just the exact same bad guy 4 times in a row.
8 Endwalker dungeons (6 MSQ + 2 Extra) and 8 Dawntrail Dungeons (6MSQ + 2 Extra) with the exact same level spreads
3 Trials In Endwalker at 83, 89, and 90 vs 3 Trials in Dawntrail at 93, 99, and 100
Scions randomly and mysteriously hanging rejoin your party before anything happens, solely to justify the trust system
Then what Zelpa mentioned about the Final boss being a big bad we just go and enter the memories of for the last dungeon.


The devs really do just go through the motions and deliver bare minimum based on existing formulas huh

MSQ package probably would've been a blessing.

After the first dungeon in Shadowbringers you split the sky (the iconic image from the title screen) and you're hailed as the legendary warrior of darkness that's going to save the world.

The first dungeon in Dawntrail you leave town on a boat and your boat crashes and then you run around and then get on a new boat. And Wuk Lamat gets seasick.

Not to mention how horrendously sluggish the pre-dungeon MSQ is, I feel like everyone gets to level 93 before they can even do the level 91 dungeon.

[Remarus]

MSQ package probably would've been a blessing.

After the first dungeon in Shadowbringers you split the sky (the iconic image from the title screen) and you're hailed as the legendary warrior of darkness that's going to save the world.

The first dungeon in Dawntrail you leave town on a boat and your boat crashes and then you run around and then get on a new boat. And Wuk Lamat gets seasick.

Not to mention how horrendously sluggish the pre-dungeon MSQ is, I feel like everyone gets to level 93 before they can even do the level 91 dungeon.

Not only did we as a community ask for a lowering of the stakes post-EW, we welcomed the idea of a low-stakes beach adventure when DT was announced. That means you can't have every opening dungeon be a sky is split moment. We have to build back up to that, or else we have the World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2 problem of every single threat being somehow bigger and badder than the last and *this time it's for real.*

DT's story did a lot of things poorly, but delivering on the promise of a lower scale threat for the grand majority of it was not one of them. Sphene/The Endless would only make it into the Top 10 list because we've had 6 expansions worth to fill it out.