Zepla's Dawntrail MSQ Analysis

[Oizen]

The idea of an "MSQ Package" is very worrying to me because I can see it, and its far worse than just the exact same bad guy 4 times in a row.
8 Endwalker dungeons (6 MSQ + 2 Extra) and 8 Dawntrail Dungeons (6MSQ + 2 Extra) with the exact same level spreads
3 Trials In Endwalker at 83, 89, and 90 vs 3 Trials in Dawntrail at 93, 99, and 100
Scions randomly and mysteriously hanging rejoin your party before anything happens, solely to justify the trust system
Then what Zelpa mentioned about the Final boss being a big bad we just go and enter the memories of for the last dungeon.


The devs really do just go through the motions and deliver bare minimum based on existing formulas huh

[Hallarem]

The idea of an "MSQ Package" is very worrying to me because I can see it, and its far worse than just the exact same bad guy 4 times in a row.
8 Endwalker dungeons (6 MSQ + 2 Extra) and 8 Dawntrail Dungeons (6MSQ + 2 Extra) with the exact same level spreads
3 Trials In Endwalker at 83, 89, and 90 vs 3 Trials in Dawntrail at 93, 99, and 100
Scions randomly and mysteriously hanging rejoin your party before anything happens, solely to justify the trust system
Then what Zelpa mentioned about the Final boss being a big bad we just go and enter the memories of for the last dungeon.


The devs really do just go through the motions and deliver bare minimum based on existing formulas huh

My super duper HYPEEER far-reach tinfoilhat theory is that the story was AT LEAST partially written by AI.

[BigCheez]

My super duper HYPEEER far-reach tinfoilhat theory is that the story was AT LEAST partially written by AI.

I mean...

I believe that generative AI has the potential not only to reshape what we create, but also to fundamentally change the processes by which we create

We also intend to be aggressive in applying AI and other cutting-edge technologies to both our content development and our publishing functions. In the short term, our goal will be to enhance our development productivity and achieve greater sophistication in our marketing efforts.

https://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/n...esident_4.html

We can't know but I really wouldn't be surprised if at least some of Dawntrail was AI generated. It would explain why it adheres so rigidly to the formula of previous content while being completely devoid of the soul or charm. I could see it being a case of dialogue being AI generated with the intention of swapping it out for human-written dialogue later and then that just not happening. Either that or the devs have given up and are just serving slop.

[Jeeqbit]

8 Endwalker dungeons (6 MSQ + 2 Extra) and 8 Dawntrail Dungeons (6MSQ + 2 Extra) with the exact same level spreads

That's not new though. I rather expected exactly that as early as Stormblood, since we already could see that SE did "formulas" then. Once Stormblood used the same MSQ format, it was pretty clear it would be done that way forever. If we're honest, it constrains the story and makes it somewhat predictable, because when I reach level 63, 73, 83 or 93, I know for certain I am about to fight a trial boss. So I ask myself, which boss fitting the bill have I heard/spotted recently? I instantly know I will be taking care of that very soon, thus spoiling the near future.

Same with dungeons at each X1, X3, X5, X7 and X9 interval. I knew in Shadowbringers we were fighting lightwardens, so logically "each dungeon is a lightwarden then" which sort of spoils some of the plot outline. I knew in Dawntrail that each zone was basically being accompanied by a dungeon.

There are still a lot of nuances to the story to learn despite that, like setbacks, lore, character development and so on, but it obviously constrains the story because they have to develop the story around the idea we will fight things every 2 levels, which might make them develop a random enemy to appear to fill that gap. I think this is just the reality they have to work with though, if they want to provide us with a certain amount of dungeons, trials, etc.

My super duper HYPEEER far-reach tinfoilhat theory is that the story was AT LEAST partially written by AI.

According to an interview it's actually a story about AI and how in the future, we will try to create AI-powered versions of ourselves to live forever, consuming more electricity than we can produce (for context, tech companies are frantically trying to produce enough electricity to power AI by investing heavily in nuclear power). And the story is meant to show the inevitable result of that - needing to shut it down so we have enough electricity for the people who are currently living.

[Lilapop]

The idea of an "MSQ Package" is very worrying to me because I can see it, and its far worse than just the exact same bad guy 4 times in a row.
8 Endwalker dungeons (6 MSQ + 2 Extra) and 8 Dawntrail Dungeons (6MSQ + 2 Extra) with the exact same level spreads
3 Trials In Endwalker at 83, 89, and 90 vs 3 Trials in Dawntrail at 93, 99, and 100
Scions randomly and mysteriously hanging rejoin your party before anything happens, solely to justify the trust system
Then what Zelpa mentioned about the Final boss being a big bad we just go and enter the memories of for the last dungeon.


The devs really do just go through the motions and deliver bare minimum based on existing formulas huh

That's what happens when Square barely puts any funding back into FF14 despite most of their funding probably coming from FF14.

[DPZ2]

That's what happens when Square barely puts any funding back into FF14 despite most of their funding probably coming from FF14.

1st half of fiscal year (ended September 2024)

MMO Division

Net Sales: 32.4 billion yen
operating income: 13.1 billion yen


The numbers include sales of the current expansion, which increased operating income greatly. [Q1 was 6.6 billion yen on 12.5 billion net sales)

Operating income is what the company uses to purchase shares, pay dividends, fund new development, and run the company as a whole.

Seems to me that putting almost 20 billion yen into the game itself (operating costs, salaries, marketing, whatever) can't be considered "barely".

Blame the company for whatever (unsatisfying expansion, mediocre gameplay, not enough shills on Twitch), but don't use "this game gets barely any of the proceeds", because that, at least, can be disproved.

[Larirawiel]

Seems to me that putting almost 20 billion yen into the game itself (operating costs, salaries, marketing, whatever) can't be considered "barely".

They put 20 billions into the MMO division. And this division is way more than FF14 only.




Cheers

[DPZ2]

They put 20 billions into the MMO division. And this division is way more than FF14 only.

You are absolutely right. So, how much of those 20 billion yen did FF11 and their only other MMORPG, Dragon Quest X, utilize? And how much of the 32 billion net sales are they responsible for, specifically?

"[The] division is way more than FF14 only" = "Square Enix's MMO division currently supports three MMORPGs, of which one (FF11) isn't even mentioned in financial reports"

[BigCheez]

1st half of fiscal year (ended September 2024)

MMO Division

Net Sales: 32.4 billion yen
operating income: 13.1 billion yen


The numbers include sales of the current expansion, which increased operating income greatly. [Q1 was 6.6 billion yen on 12.5 billion net sales)

Operating income is what the company uses to purchase shares, pay dividends, fund new development, and run the company as a whole.

Seems to me that putting almost 20 billion yen into the game itself (operating costs, salaries, marketing, whatever) can't be considered "barely".

Blame the company for whatever (unsatisfying expansion, mediocre gameplay, not enough shills on Twitch), but don't use "this game gets barely any of the proceeds", because that, at least, can be disproved.

A large chunk of that will have gone into outsourcing the mobile game.

[DPZ2]

A large chunk of that will have gone into outsourcing the mobile game.

Oddly enough, the relationship between Tencent and Square Enix was explained quite differently in a recent [February 2024] Reuter's article explaining the end of development for a Nier mobile game by Tencent:

"Mobile games adapted from famous computer and console games, known as intellectual property (IP) games, often entail hefty fees to IP owners, in this case to Square Enix.

Royalty fees of 15% to 20% of sales are typical, the people said, while Apple's App Store takes a 30% cut and marketing and user acquisition can cost another 30% to 40%, leaving slim profit margins.

As growth in mobile games slows and development costs rise, Tencent is finding that many IP games are becoming too expensive to pursue, the people said.

One of the people said that Tencent was only willing to pay royalty fees below 10% in recent negotiations with IP holders."

Doesn't seem like a hefty "investment" on Square Enix's part. More like free cash cow -- no development, no risk.