Please help me understand why/how Chaotic one last time? (because I'm done)

[AvoSturmfaust]

I dont know why people say its not the difficulity they planned, because it is, Yoshi said its Extreme Level, then the other producer came and said its more like Savage Turn 2 which it is, so where was it not planned? its more that the COMMUNITY thought ohhh its a alliance raid cant be so hard and forget about the producers word or even didnt listen to him

and for the prog liars, just kick them, i did it day 1 too, i literally wrote "P2" Prog if someone joined and had a cutscene he got kicked the moment he was out of it, no patience for prog liar.

[Daralii]

I dont know why people say its not the difficulity they planned, because it is, Yoshi said its Extreme Level, then the other producer came and said its more like Savage Turn 2 which it is, so where was it not planned? its more that the COMMUNITY thought ohhh its a alliance raid cant be so hard and forget about the producers word or even didnt listen to him

and for the prog liars, just kick them, i did it day 1 too, i literally wrote "P2" Prog if someone joined and had a cutscene he got kicked the moment he was out of it, no patience for prog liar.

According to what was said during the LL, the original goal was for the difficulty to be roughly Extreme-level, but they overtuned it into Savage territory and just decided to keep it at that instead of revising it.

[Kuroka]

But it's true generally you could have a healer just carrying with Esuna for Doom, shields, etc. And then they wonder why they can't get far in the next party.

I am absolutely not suited to heal harder content, yet, with me healing after literal weeks barely healing at all we did better then with the random healers we had before - and thats with my healer being almost 10 ilvl lower then my dps lol

i mean the Esuna is hard, idk if its servertick or me not being used to the change but i - and my wife as well - died several times due esuna being used but not removing doom... once ppl know better its fine, but for progress, that doom is hell...

But just the difference with my shields... i noticed that on the extreme as well, i had several deaths by meteor or when the dimension is switched due not gettin healed at all. its one thing if youre literally out of options but if theres no aoe shield/hot AT ALL and i die, im gettin angry lol
(took me weeks until i could stop using vercure on myself during meteors lol)

[Infindox]

I dont know why people say its not the difficulity they planned, because it is, Yoshi said its Extreme Level, then the other producer came and said its more like Savage Turn 2 which it is, so where was it not planned? its more that the COMMUNITY thought ohhh its a alliance raid cant be so hard and forget about the producers word or even didnt listen to him

Because people expected BA/DRS levels. As Daralii said, they made it harder then what they originally said, but then they never bothered to fix their mistake. So... People did listen this time.

[Kaurhz]

its more that the COMMUNITY thought ohhh its a alliance raid cant be so hard and forget about the producers word or even didnt listen to him

I don't think this is the issue at all. A lot of people were requesting harder alliance raids for a long time, so it isn't that they were expecting a traditional alliance raid difficulty, but I do think they were expecting something more akin to BA/DRS difficulty for 24-man. Which in the case of BA I think sits between Alliance Raid and extreme difficulty, mechanically speaking.

Besides vacuum comparisons of mechanics on 8-man vs 24-man is sort of pointless in the first place, since a lot of the difficulty won't come from the mechanics, but keeping all 24 people on the same page and executing the mechanics properly, especially when you introduce a body check.

[Jeeqbit]

They tried so much that Jeuno isn't much harder if at all (wait to see how it's gonna feel to run it in 7.5...

Well it isn't harder to me. But it's at least done a different approach with the mechanics which seems to wipe out whole alliances occasionally. Which is something I at least want to see from such a raid. And of course you're right that in 7.5 it will be like Labyrinth or Void Ark. An actual striking dummy because they don't tier sync it.

by the way even at release we already skipped that Doom cast from the last boss

It has a Doom cast?

The change of paradigm. Everything is more binary and individualistic than ever. What wiped alliances in Ivalice and whatnot was just not people being worse, it was also that you had something else to juggle with next to the encounter

I agree because rotations were more punishing before with factors like ranged attacks breaking combos, combos expiring if not continued for a few seconds and also the better telegraphs are a factor that makes things easier now.

Although I do think some of the mechanics from the past area easier purely because they added them to dungeons in a lighter form, so that now your average MSQ player is used to them if they see them in a raid. Hall of the Novice is probably another factor as well.

There was also just more responsibility in those raids that they seem unwilling to return to in the casual version of Alliance Raids so far, such as placing things permanently (like webs), needing to separate bosses to prevent them tethering, a majority of people needing to be on pads (people complain about towers in the Chaos raid, but it worked in the unnerfed Thunder God fight by only needing to be done by 60% of players).

Sure people got "stuck" on Ozma and Thunder God in past alliance raids, but I don't see a problem with this at all because they try again and eventually beat it, or some alliances would clear at least. It's only a problem if hardly anyone is clearing. When they were current, I hardly saw any actual abandons - rather, when the person complaining we weren't good left and was replaced, we would suddenly clear it.

It's ironic how that works. Whenever the person complaining the alliance is bad got replaced, suddenly it was a clear.

I guess it's more social due to the salt?

There is also an element of emotional communication. We're all there doing it together, communicating with character movements or macros as well. Which is in contrast to, say, Island Sanctuary where you are completely alone and don't even have so much as that.

[Ravennes]

Well it isn't harder to me. But it's at least done a different approach with the mechanics which seems to wipe out whole alliances occasionally. Which is something I at least want to see from such a raid. And of course you're right that in 7.5 it will be like Labyrinth or Void Ark. An actual striking dummy because they don't tier sync it.
It has a Doom cast?
I agree because rotations were more punishing before with factors like ranged attacks breaking combos, combos expiring if not continued for a few seconds and also the better telegraphs are a factor that makes things easier now.

Although I do think some of the mechanics from the past area easier purely because they added them to dungeons in a lighter form, so that now your average MSQ player is used to them if they see them in a raid. Hall of the Novice is probably another factor as well.

There was also just more responsibility in those raids that they seem unwilling to return to in the casual version of Alliance Raids so far, such as placing things permanently (like webs), needing to separate bosses to prevent them tethering, a majority of people needing to be on pads (people complain about towers in the Chaos raid, but it worked in the unnerfed Thunder God fight by only needing to be done by 60% of players).

Sure people got "stuck" on Ozma and Thunder God in past alliance raids, but I don't see a problem with this at all because they try again and eventually beat it, or some alliances would clear at least. It's only a problem if hardly anyone is clearing. When they were current, I hardly saw any actual abandons - rather, when the person complaining we weren't good left and was replaced, we would suddenly clear it.

It's ironic how that works. Whenever the person complaining the alliance is bad got replaced, suddenly it was a clear.
There is also an element of emotional communication. We're all there doing it together, communicating with character movements or macros as well. Which is in contrast to, say, Island Sanctuary where you are completely alone and don't even have so much as that.

i compleetly forgot island sanctuary existed... but i really don't wanna do Management roles inside a fantasy game xD

[Lilapop]

I don't think it's a deep mystery. They either screwed up, are cloth-eared, or assume they know better than the players who predicted most of the problems with this fight when the true difficulty was revealed in the LL.

They know who they were targeting with this fight, though.

[Lilapop]

honestly seeing the expectation, or desire for the next field operation zone being 'extreme' level difficulty made me laugh

People forget there'll probably be an Ex/Savage element to that too (BA, DRs...), even more content for endgame raiders!!

[Fawkes]

They tried so much that Jeuno isn't much harder if at all (wait to see how it's gonna feel to run it in 7.5... by the way even at release we already skipped that Doom cast from the last boss and I've seen it only exactly once in my life so far)...

It has a Doom cast?

No, it has an ability that's called like "Doom Arc", but it's just a heavy AoE bleed. I feel like it's meant more as a soft enrage than like a mechanic you're meant to deal with. It's nothing like skipping Nald'thal's scales, that'd be like skipping the part where he puts his clothes on.