Just Nerf Picto

[Supersnow845]

Are NIN + SCH presence making a DPS check / enrage in Chaotic inconsequential by magnitudes like PCT in FRU? I get where the question is coming from, but I don't think it can be compared like this. From what I heard you don't really skip anything by having them present + the penalties for getting hit in general aren't like Ultimates anyways.

I mean DPS checks in low savage floor equivalents with 24 people were never a concern to begin with. That doesn’t mean it isn’t weirdly hypocritical to be fine with SCH being EIGHTEEN percent ahead of all other healers while also being the strongest “healer” and NIN being 10-12% ahead of all other DPS with the rezz casters rivalling the damage casters just because the DPS check was never a concern

[Kahnha]

Common people want nerfs why not buff everything else?
Yoshi P said he did not want to nerf it for a reason you guys butt hurt over the job doing good instead of being butt hurt that your own job is not doing better...
I'm a BLM player and I say Picto should stay where it is... now make BLM stronger plz and thak you. :3

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean DPS checks in low savage floor equivalents with 24 people were never a concern to begin with. That doesn’t mean it isn’t weirdly hypocritical to be fine with SCH being EIGHTEEN percent ahead of all other healers while also being the strongest “healer” and NIN being 10-12% ahead of all other DPS with the rezz casters rivalling the damage casters just because the DPS check was never a concern

I mean by that same token, should we start caring about Criterion Savage performance potentially favouring more selfish DPS like SAM + BLM because raid buff contribution means less there?

The reason 8-man raiding is seen as the balancing point is because most relevant content is actually using the 2-2-4 composition as their base, which just happens so to be that Ultimate, Savage and to a much lesser degree Extreme is part of. If 24-man raiding was the actual baseline for Savage and Ultimate, then we'd see balance changes based on that. Mug/Dokumori and Chain Stratagem is balanced around 8-man content specifically; if 24-man was our main raid format they'd be adjusted accordingly.

While a tangent, you can see similar balancing philosophy in PvP - it is primarily balanced around the 5v5 Crystalline Conflict mode, which is what they consider their main mode and where they put the most amount of work hours into. Some jobs are absolute monsters in 1v1 duels or in AOE scenarios exceeding 5 players, but balancing to those jobs is more likely done with job-specific scaling and nowadays map design.

[Supersnow845]

I mean by that same token, should we start caring about Criterion Savage performance potentially favouring more selfish DPS like SAM + BLM because raid buff contribution means less there?

The reason 8-man raiding is seen as the balancing point is because most relevant content is actually using the 2-2-4 composition as their base, which just happens so to be that Ultimate, Savage and to a much lesser degree Extreme is part of. If 24-man raiding was the actual baseline for Savage and Ultimate, then we'd see balance changes based on that. Mug/Dokumori and Chain Stratagem is balanced around 8-man content specifically; if 24-man was our main raid format they'd be adjusted accordingly.

While a tangent, you can see similar balancing philosophy in PvP - it is primarily balanced around the 5v5 Crystalline Conflict mode, which is what they consider their main mode and where they put the most amount of work hours into. Some jobs are absolute monsters in 1v1 duels or in AOE scenarios exceeding 5 players, but balancing to those jobs is more likely done with job-specific scaling and nowadays map design.

By the same token of “8 man is the balancing stick” jobs are explicitly designed not to factor into large amounts of downtime which is why half of them barely function with it and the other half only barely tolerate it. Even before PCT it’s obvious that ultimate is not a balancing point because jobs that mitigate downtime have always been better in ultimates by margins that would justify changes in savage

SCH/NIN being overpowered because their buffs are debuffs on the boss is basically the same example of a weird individual quirk in design that also causes PCT to be favoured in ultimate

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

By the same token of “8 man is the balancing stick” jobs are explicitly designed not to factor into large amounts of downtime which is why half of them barely function with it and the other half only barely tolerate it. Even before PCT it’s obvious that ultimate is not a balancing point because jobs that mitigate downtime have always been better in ultimates by margins that would justify changes in savage

SCH/NIN being overpowered because their buffs are debuffs on the boss is basically the same example of a weird individual quirk in design that also causes PCT to be favoured in ultimate

Really? PCT's dominance in fights with high downtime is "just" a weird individual quirk that simply favours it disproportionally more than every other jobt hat came before it? Come on, let's not repeat this song and dance - we had Ultimates since 4.1 and somehow through most of the time, we didn't have any such egrigious difference in performance between burst-favouring jobs and sustain-favouring jobs all this time until Pictomancer came along and just overshot the mark on burst capability while also being more than decent in sustain (high uptime) damage. It's fine for Pictomancer to be strong and have a niche that can outperform Black Mage, but not "my party can have deaths and damage downs but we are fine by default because we have Pictomancer" strong or "DPS checks are basically not a thing because we have Pictomancer" strong either.

Also, Pictomancer in Ultimate settings with 8 people and all the contribution it has is a much larger margin of the total damage contribution of the party VS NIN/SCH being present in 24-man. Even if everyone does perfect bursts to feed into Mug + Chain Stratagem, their total contribution to the combined alliance DPS would STILL be a much smaller margin than Pictomancer is in 8-man Ultimates.

[Nero-Voidstails]

Common people want nerfs why not buff everything else?
Yoshi P said he did not want to nerf it for a reason you guys butt hurt over the job doing good instead of being butt hurt that your own job is not doing better...
I'm a BLM player and I say Picto should stay where it is... now make BLM stronger plz and thak you. :3

the problem with making everything stronger is all other fight lose they're balance and everything die to quickly too so sadly nerfing Picto is the best option here to

[TheDustyOne]

the problem with making everything stronger is all other fight lose they're balance and everything die to quickly too so sadly nerfing Picto is the best option here to

This; power creep is a very real thing in this game and Squares insistence of buffing jobs to the level of the strongest job rather than balancing to a baseline that they've designed fights for is a big problem.

[Nasigno]

I keep seeing the routine rotation of this, "PCT is overpowered, its making powercreep, etc, etc, etc" but in same point, anytime the numbers come up. It seems to deaf ears. Because the numbers do not lie. PCT is not the end of the game content destroyer, and even if you cling to the FRU charts, you at best prove the following:

1. Each fight, as the charts prove, has a meta of top DMG jobs, and a combination that is better than another. FRU has PCT ontop, Chaotic has Ninja on top, and Savage 1-4 rotates who is on top. Spoilers, PCT is only on-top on FRU. Everywhere else it is something else.

2. Nobody is actually looking at the data, as they would realize the above mentioned item. Just to put into perspective, for chaotic. The most overpowered has somehow resulted in being 8th place. Next to MCH. The job everyone has meme'd on for being low DPS for a raid encounter. How does, the most overpowered job literally got that low?

3. People love to equate the peak capability, when the reality is comparing against the top of the player base, and if you dip into EXs and Savages, the gap of capability is more apparent. As the gap is about 30-40% of its peak capability. If the job was that easy, and overpowered the gap would not be that large.

So yea, I'm the big spooky Pictomancer Main now, but going to be honest with you. It is not the content destroying monster you make it out to be.

[CamuiKushi]

Yep, they should nerf it so meta slaves stop complaining about it.

[CVXIV]

I keep seeing the routine rotation of this, "PCT is overpowered, its making powercreep, etc, etc, etc" but in same point, anytime the numbers come up. It seems to deaf ears. Because the numbers do not lie. PCT is not the end of the game content destroyer, and even if you cling to the FRU charts, you at best prove the following:

1. Each fight, as the charts prove, has a meta of top DMG jobs, and a combination that is better than another. FRU has PCT ontop, Chaotic has Ninja on top, and Savage 1-4 rotates who is on top. Spoilers, PCT is only on-top on FRU. Everywhere else it is something else.

2. Nobody is actually looking at the data, as they would realize the above mentioned item. Just to put into perspective, for chaotic. The most overpowered has somehow resulted in being 8th place. Next to MCH. The job everyone has meme'd on for being low DPS for a raid encounter. How does, the most overpowered job literally got that low?

3. People love to equate the peak capability, when the reality is comparing against the top of the player base, and if you dip into EXs and Savages, the gap of capability is more apparent. As the gap is about 30-40% of its peak capability. If the job was that easy, and overpowered the gap would not be that large.

So yea, I'm the big spooky Pictomancer Main now, but going to be honest with you. It is not the content destroying monster you make it out to be.

your squeaky hammer has destroyed millions