Just Nerf Picto

[AurisNix]

If you really like your Job you should just play your Job no matter what people tell you.

Love wins overall! >:0

As most statics doing prog on hardcore content we always check our damage to improve etc is not something I generally care about even in week 1 savage, but this is the first time I go into ultimate with a "raider" mindset rather than a casual funsies mindset that I usually go to. My damage as RDM would parse 95 -100 in our best pulls and die in enrage, while as PCT I parse a low gray number and barely know the rotation and very rarely see the enrage (most of the time when I die). Ive been doing some dailies and some other content as PCT (to improve and memorize my rotation) and that same overpower feeling still reflects in every content I jump into, unlike some ppl think that this is only a problem in FRU well in my experience they are completely wrong cuz PCT nukes dungeon bosses, trials etc in any low or current level content. I even tried the WAR-PCT duo in treasure maps as someone mentioned here and I was surprised how easy it was. I do agree that PCT is the best job design we ever had (and wish all the jobs had that treatment as well) but doesn't justify the overtune in their abilities that makes any other dps job meaningless (not only casters). Why nerf picto? cuz they said they would rather buff all the other dps jobs instead but I highly doubt they would retune all the other dungeons, alliances or trials as well either high end or casual.

All I can think of is when back in EW the alliance raid were such a joke and most of the content was a walking simulator to the point of skipping entire mechs without much effort.

Imagine being a new player going into Aglaia and never find out that Nald Thal has a "balance" mech and a cutscene after that just because boss died in a snap. I don't wanna go back to that boring experience of EW just because they think is better to buff all the jobs rather than nerf one job. Thats not a good casual experience for me.

[Lorika]

You know, one of the first thing Gacha Player ask when they want to try a Gacha Game released a while ago : How is the Powercreep?
Powercreep is considered a bad thing, and it is.

Asking for Powercreep to fixing an OP Class is just asking for killing the game on the long run.

Nerfing only the class it's far better than Powercreep.... You'll make all the people playing the job only for the big number (and not because they like it) cry because they won't be OP anymore but, it's far better than letting all the players playing the other class getting more and more angry....

[Nasigno]

You know, one of the first thing Gacha Player ask when they want to try a Gacha Game released a while ago : How is the Powercreep?
Powercreep is considered a bad thing, and it is.

Asking for Powercreep to fixing an OP Class is just asking for killing the game on the long run.

Nerfing only the class it's far better than Powercreep.... You'll make all the people playing the job only for the big number (and not because they like it) cry because they won't be OP anymore but, it's far better than letting all the players playing the other class getting more and more angry....

So, should they also nerf DRG/MNK? As after all SAM is greedy DPS and is not beating those outright. Guess we need to drop quite a few jobs to be in line with the logic. Only Viper, Samurai, and Black Mage deserve the crown of the top DPS and everything else should just a substitute? Granted if your argument is purely based on "people who play it will cry about it not being OP" that is what we are seeing with BLM about PCT right now. How many complaints are about "how BLM is being overshadowed by PCT." this is same argument as mentioned.

As said, the median increase is at best 3K DPS . Yea, sure its about 1 million HP in an overall fight in FRU only. (Key point, as nowhere else this exists.). But given all encounters outside of FRU, or any multi-downtime fights which is not current content, PCT loses out to, DRG, VPR, MNK, BLM and that data can be substantiated. There is clear empirical evidence of it that is readily available. Would a job that is so vastly overpowered LOSE in uptime fights to other jobs? Granted that all depends on the player able to generate said results, has the gear, so on. Though, also in that same data exists proof PCT can do worse than tank or healer damage. Remember, the peak capability is not done by everyone. There is a massive gap in what can be done, to even what is done on the average that can be seen.

I just rest the point, as truly it is way overblown to a point beyond belief. It is working as intended, do not stress.

[Lorika]

So, should they also nerf DRG/MNK? As after all SAM is greedy DPS and is not beating those outright. Guess we need to drop quite a few jobs to be in line with the logic. Only Viper, Samurai, and Black Mage deserve the crown of the top DPS and everything else should just a substitute? Granted if your argument is purely based on "people who play it will cry about it not being OP" that is what we are seeing with BLM about PCT right now. How many complaints are about "how BLM is being overshadowed by PCT." this is same argument as mentioned.

As said, the median increase is at best 3K DPS . Yea, sure its about 1 million HP in an overall fight in FRU only. (Key point, as nowhere else this exists.). But given all encounters outside of FRU, or any multi-downtime fights which is not current content, PCT loses out to, DRG, VPR, MNK, BLM and that data can be substantiated. There is clear empirical evidence of it that is readily available. Would a job that is so vastly overpowered LOSE in uptime fights to other jobs? Granted that all depends on the player able to generate said results, has the gear, so on. Though, also in that same data exists proof PCT can do worse than tank or healer damage. Remember, the peak capability is not done by everyone. There is a massive gap in what can be done, to even what is done on the average that can be seen.

I just rest the point, as truly it is way overblown to a point beyond belief. It is working as intended, do not stress.

Unbalance and Powercreep are two different things.
Unbalance can be fixed little by little.... Powercreep cannot.

[Supersnow845]

So now that NIN (and SCH) are as far ahead in CAR as PCT is in FRU for their unique advantage of their raid buff being a debuff on the boss is it time to call for NIN nerfs or is this different somehow

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

So now that NIN (and SCH) are as far ahead in CAR as PCT is in FRU for their unique advantage of their raid buff being a debuff on the boss is it time to call for NIN nerfs or is this different somehow

Are NIN + SCH presence making a DPS check / enrage in Chaotic inconsequential by magnitudes like PCT in FRU? I get where the question is coming from, but I don't think it can be compared like this. From what I heard you don't really skip anything by having them present + the penalties for getting hit in general aren't like Ultimates anyways.

[Supersnow845]

Are NIN + SCH presence making a DPS check / enrage in Chaotic inconsequential by magnitudes like PCT in FRU? I get where the question is coming from, but I don't think it can be compared like this. From what I heard you don't really skip anything by having them present + the penalties for getting hit in general aren't like Ultimates anyways.

I mean DPS checks in low savage floor equivalents with 24 people were never a concern to begin with. That doesn’t mean it isn’t weirdly hypocritical to be fine with SCH being EIGHTEEN percent ahead of all other healers while also being the strongest “healer” and NIN being 10-12% ahead of all other DPS with the rezz casters rivalling the damage casters just because the DPS check was never a concern

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean DPS checks in low savage floor equivalents with 24 people were never a concern to begin with. That doesn’t mean it isn’t weirdly hypocritical to be fine with SCH being EIGHTEEN percent ahead of all other healers while also being the strongest “healer” and NIN being 10-12% ahead of all other DPS with the rezz casters rivalling the damage casters just because the DPS check was never a concern

I mean by that same token, should we start caring about Criterion Savage performance potentially favouring more selfish DPS like SAM + BLM because raid buff contribution means less there?

The reason 8-man raiding is seen as the balancing point is because most relevant content is actually using the 2-2-4 composition as their base, which just happens so to be that Ultimate, Savage and to a much lesser degree Extreme is part of. If 24-man raiding was the actual baseline for Savage and Ultimate, then we'd see balance changes based on that. Mug/Dokumori and Chain Stratagem is balanced around 8-man content specifically; if 24-man was our main raid format they'd be adjusted accordingly.

While a tangent, you can see similar balancing philosophy in PvP - it is primarily balanced around the 5v5 Crystalline Conflict mode, which is what they consider their main mode and where they put the most amount of work hours into. Some jobs are absolute monsters in 1v1 duels or in AOE scenarios exceeding 5 players, but balancing to those jobs is more likely done with job-specific scaling and nowadays map design.

[Supersnow845]

I mean by that same token, should we start caring about Criterion Savage performance potentially favouring more selfish DPS like SAM + BLM because raid buff contribution means less there?

The reason 8-man raiding is seen as the balancing point is because most relevant content is actually using the 2-2-4 composition as their base, which just happens so to be that Ultimate, Savage and to a much lesser degree Extreme is part of. If 24-man raiding was the actual baseline for Savage and Ultimate, then we'd see balance changes based on that. Mug/Dokumori and Chain Stratagem is balanced around 8-man content specifically; if 24-man was our main raid format they'd be adjusted accordingly.

While a tangent, you can see similar balancing philosophy in PvP - it is primarily balanced around the 5v5 Crystalline Conflict mode, which is what they consider their main mode and where they put the most amount of work hours into. Some jobs are absolute monsters in 1v1 duels or in AOE scenarios exceeding 5 players, but balancing to those jobs is more likely done with job-specific scaling and nowadays map design.

By the same token of “8 man is the balancing stick” jobs are explicitly designed not to factor into large amounts of downtime which is why half of them barely function with it and the other half only barely tolerate it. Even before PCT it’s obvious that ultimate is not a balancing point because jobs that mitigate downtime have always been better in ultimates by margins that would justify changes in savage

SCH/NIN being overpowered because their buffs are debuffs on the boss is basically the same example of a weird individual quirk in design that also causes PCT to be favoured in ultimate

[Kahnha]

Common people want nerfs why not buff everything else?
Yoshi P said he did not want to nerf it for a reason you guys butt hurt over the job doing good instead of being butt hurt that your own job is not doing better...
I'm a BLM player and I say Picto should stay where it is... now make BLM stronger plz and thak you. :3