Don't do chaotic raid again

[AllenThyl]

Savage being midcore content is the greatest lie being told on these forums, and people truly believe that. Its incredible.
Just because you can clear a tier after months does not make it "midcore". Most people can clear any game if they keep banging their head against it and practice playing. That is the player improving/learning, not the game being easy/midcore/casual.

If a "midcore" player is not able to clear more content than a "casual" player, how are they even different categories? It's just distinction without difference. The problem is these labels are usually used to differentiate people's ability to spend time. But the ability to spend time says nothing about people's skill. The "midcore" players are galore in Bozja, having spent a lot of time amassing enough mettle to get all 30 rays, and yet Red Choctober STILL wipes whole dungeons regularly. And let's not even start about the "midcores" facing the earth / fire combo in CLL. Because that is also usually cleared by only a fraction of all participating players.

So yes, at the very least, Unreals and Extremes (certainly the early ones in an expansion) are midcore. Savages can be more debatable, but at least this tier's first turn should be doable for any midcore player.

[ovIm]

Who asked?

You insinuated I would not know what Savage is. I have set the record straight.
So, to answer your question: you asked. You're welcome

If a "midcore" player is not able to clear more content than a "casual" player, how are they even different categories? It's just distinction without difference. The problem is these labels are usually used to differentiate people's ability to spend time. But the ability to spend time says nothing about people's skill. The "midcore" players are galore in Bozja, having spent a lot of time amassing enough mettle to get all 30 rays, and yet Red Choctober STILL wipes whole dungeons regularly. And let's not even start about the "midcores" facing the earth / fire combo in CLL. Because that is also usually cleared by only a fraction of all participating players.

"
I am not arguing about the distinction between hard-, midcore, or casual players. What I was saying in the quoted text - i do not subscribe to the notion that Savage fights are "midcore", not if they are the regular difficult endgame that FFXIV offers since its release. Ultimate is a step above that, for those wanting an extra challenge.

Everything else you say here makes sense, yeah.

[AllenThyl]

I am not arguing about the distinction between hard-, midcore, or casual players. What I was saying in the quoted text - i do not subscribe to the notion that Savage fights are "midcore", not if they are the regular difficult endgame that FFXIV offers since its release. Ultimate is a step above that, for those wanting an extra challenge.

Everything else you say here makes sense, yeah.

But the distinction is precisely what is always lacking in all these discussions about "there is no content for group x". There is always demand in the forums for "more midcore content", but when prodding for details, without fail it comes down to "easy to clear first lockout without proper knowledge of one's own job or enemy abilities or any strategies while watching some movie on the 2nd screen, 2 wipes max". The real issue I think is that the label "casual" is usually used to unfairly denigrate others, so people who are at the same skill level have tried to rebrand themselves as "midcore". And so they demand "midcore" content, which is the very same difficulty, but don't want to admit that it is. The "casual" content features no failure state when a majority of people don't do their rotation properly and fail mechanics repeatedly. I have yet to see anyone tell me how to make "midcore" content without either putting a requirement an people's ability to perform their jobs, or to perform the mechanics correctly.