Don't do chaotic raid again

[AvoSturmfaust]

Its literally always the same, every time a discussion "Casuals vs Hardcore" "No Endgame Content for Casuals" blebleble let me tell ya something

1. Casuals vs Hardcore, you arent Hardcore because of raiding, im casual and i raid too so why needs to be there always a discussion about "Casuals vs Hardcore Raider"?

2. I play now MMORPGs for more then 15 Years and the Raiding or Difficulity Fights were always the Endgamecontent there was nearly none content which didnt involve some fights and its time that final goes in exactly this direction like a mmorpg should be and the difference is even casuals did it in these games but here in final? its just mimimimi Bruh the FFXIV "Bubble" to be a save place for everyone is destroying the game, not the endgame content just growth some balls and just try the shit

[ovIm]

You actually don't need determination or months of practice though. You need a group of people who enjoy playing the game. I know a group who started Arcadion on week 1 and they're still progging M4S because they just don't take it seriously at all. They'll clear in the next couple of weeks and they're anything but dedicated or ambitious, lmao.

IDK what you think savage is but I can assure you it isn't that.

Having raided Savage from 3.5 to 6.0, I know what Savage is, what the difficulty entails, what you need for clearing, and based on my knowledge and experience with the game I absolutely disagree with you considering Savage midcore content.

But carry on otherwise, if it pleases you.

[Lilapop]

Its literally always the same, every time a discussion "Casuals vs Hardcore" "No Endgame Content for Casuals" blebleble let me tell ya something

1. Casuals vs Hardcore, you arent Hardcore because of raiding, im casual and i raid too so why needs to be there always a discussion about "Casuals vs Hardcore Raider"?

2. I play now MMORPGs for more then 15 Years and the Raiding or Difficulity Fights were always the Endgamecontent there was nearly none content which didnt involve some fights and its time that final goes in exactly this direction like a mmorpg should be and the difference is even casuals did it in these games but here in final? its just mimimimi Bruh the FFXIV "Bubble" to be a save place for everyone is destroying the game, not the endgame content just growth some balls and just try the shit

What point are you trying to make here?

[VictorSpoils]

Progging today and even the "phase 2 prog" groups cannot consistently make it to the towers, much less past them. This can also be a testament to how well Crystal fares against body checks.

[Tsumdere]

It's not a Crystal thing. It's a FFXIV thing.

PF on Aether is a shitshow, too. Haven't been in a single PF for the past 7 hours that can get past Phase 2 Towers.

[BigCheez]

Having raided Savage from 3.5 to 6.0, I know what Savage is, what the difficulty entails, what you need for clearing, and based on my knowledge and experience with the game I absolutely disagree with you considering Savage midcore content.

But carry on otherwise, if it pleases you.

Who asked?

[VictorSpoils]

It's not a Crystal thing. It's a FFXIV thing.

PF on Aether is a shitshow, too. Haven't been in a single PF for the past 7 hours that can get past Phase 2 Towers.

That's true. Maybe if the whole fight was like phase 1/3 it could be limped through, but it sure wouldn't be as interesting.

[AllenThyl]

Savage being midcore content is the greatest lie being told on these forums, and people truly believe that. Its incredible.
Just because you can clear a tier after months does not make it "midcore". Most people can clear any game if they keep banging their head against it and practice playing. That is the player improving/learning, not the game being easy/midcore/casual.

If a "midcore" player is not able to clear more content than a "casual" player, how are they even different categories? It's just distinction without difference. The problem is these labels are usually used to differentiate people's ability to spend time. But the ability to spend time says nothing about people's skill. The "midcore" players are galore in Bozja, having spent a lot of time amassing enough mettle to get all 30 rays, and yet Red Choctober STILL wipes whole dungeons regularly. And let's not even start about the "midcores" facing the earth / fire combo in CLL. Because that is also usually cleared by only a fraction of all participating players.

So yes, at the very least, Unreals and Extremes (certainly the early ones in an expansion) are midcore. Savages can be more debatable, but at least this tier's first turn should be doable for any midcore player.

[Havenchild]

There are definitely things to criticize in this raid and it is correct to criticize yet another higher difficulty content in a row instead of something else.
This has also nothing to do with getting better because you are dependent on 23 other people compared to the usual 7 and yes some mechanics ARE overly punishing like the towers in phase 2 wiping the whole raid and the back to back mechanics are visually cluttering.

Towers might literally be the one bottlenecking mechanic in the entire fight and I got to it in 30m of prog on pf and past it in the same instance. It's not that hard to get to or get passed assuming everyone's alive. Alternatively, once you get to a certain point where you are good with prog, jump to another party at the next phase. PF is moving fast through it with clear parties already present so clearly its not that bad.

You can get better but you can't get better teammates and 24 player content has a whole load of points of failure other than yourself. You either need to somehow put together a static for a one-off 24 player fight with no real rewards or deal with the inevitable skill issues of PF.

In 8 player content, if everyone makes a mistake 1/8 pulls then the fight becomes statistically unclearable. In 24 player content, that becomes 1/24 pulls. And the average PF enjoyer can barely make it through 1 pull without wiping the raid, never mind 24.

There's a very good reason that the wider MMO landscape has moved away from 40 player raiding in favour of <10 player raiding over the years.

I don't buy its this strict. Nor this much of an issue, least for chaotic raid. As mentioned, PF on aether seems to be moving pretty quickly through prog. This is on par with Shinryu EX /Thordan Ex at best, which is something we can aim for when we already have piss easy alliance raids.

[ovIm]

Who asked?

You insinuated I would not know what Savage is. I have set the record straight.
So, to answer your question: you asked. You're welcome

If a "midcore" player is not able to clear more content than a "casual" player, how are they even different categories? It's just distinction without difference. The problem is these labels are usually used to differentiate people's ability to spend time. But the ability to spend time says nothing about people's skill. The "midcore" players are galore in Bozja, having spent a lot of time amassing enough mettle to get all 30 rays, and yet Red Choctober STILL wipes whole dungeons regularly. And let's not even start about the "midcores" facing the earth / fire combo in CLL. Because that is also usually cleared by only a fraction of all participating players.

"
I am not arguing about the distinction between hard-, midcore, or casual players. What I was saying in the quoted text - i do not subscribe to the notion that Savage fights are "midcore", not if they are the regular difficult endgame that FFXIV offers since its release. Ultimate is a step above that, for those wanting an extra challenge.

Everything else you say here makes sense, yeah.