What jobs actually need Raid Buffs?

[Rithy255]

Honestly I wouldn't want any "raid" buffs outside of dance partner & bard songs (not the 2 minute 20s ones).

Raid buffs are hurting job design as of current as you can't have any sustained damage jobs like old Paladin, the only reason why I would want raid buffs is if they add back different timers but I doubt that we will get that any time soon.

Imo either we have interesting different timer raid buffs or we shouldn't at all.

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly I wouldn't want any "raid" buffs outside of dance partner & bard songs (not the 2 minute 20s ones).

Raid buffs are hurting job design as of current as you can't have any sustained damage jobs like old Paladin, the only reason why I would want raid buffs is if they add back different timers but I doubt that we will get that any time soon.

Imo either we have interesting different timer raid buffs or we shouldn't at all.

You can still have sustained damage profiles. They just tend therefore to be OP in light party content if tuned appropriately for full party content, since their own DPS will be a larger portion of cDPS (damage contribution *in practice* in a fitting party).

As we don't have any serious light-party mainline content (as would actual worthwhile rewards / cumulative progression or a difficulty out of reach of any standard assortment of roles, whatever their jobs) and the devs have explicitly declined to make any, that's not an issue, though.

So you'd just tune each job for their 8-man value in practice, and some would be easier to get reliably that value out of than others, perhaps with a barely noticeable consequent debuff in 8-mans but also a decently noticeable advantage in 4-mans.

[Azurarok]

Bring back MP Foe Requiem and MP Hypercharge

Was MP hypercharge a thing too? I'm having a weirdly hard time finding info on old Hypercharge.

I really like the idea of some jobs being able to choose when to use a buff while weighing resource costs instead of being hard locked to a cooldown timer, so they can adjust to whatever your party comp has for burst windows. Could even have mode where it drains MP slower for a weaker buff that'd benefit sustained jobs better than burst.

[Valence]

Was MP hypercharge a thing too? I'm having a weirdly hard time finding info on old Hypercharge.

I really like the idea of some jobs being able to choose when to use a buff while weighing resource costs instead of being hard locked to a cooldown timer, so they can adjust to whatever your party comp has for burst windows. Could even have mode where it drains MP slower for a weaker buff that'd benefit sustained jobs better than burst.

Hypercharge behaved like Battle Voice and Foe Requiem combined in HW: 20s duration, drains MP from the MCH down to 0s, doubles turret attack damage and inflicts damage vuln (magical from bishop, physical from rook). The debuff vuln duration being 10s meant the whole debuff window lasted approximately 28s with pulse/attack ticks. 10% either magical or physical in HW, 5% all damage types in SB. Big difference with Foe Requiem was that it was on a 120s cooldown though.

In SB it was possible to pull 45s long Foe Requiems with MP refreshes like manashift on BRD. Or just have funky burst patterns like 0min, 2min, 3min, 4min, 6min etc.

[Mikey_R]

Hypercharge behaved like Battle Voice and Foe Requiem combined in HW: 20s duration, drains MP from the MCH down to 0s,...

Hypercharge didn't drain MP, it was just a 120 second cooldown that lasted 20 seconds. The one that drained MP was Promotion, which was the MCH equivalent to Mage's Ballad and Army's Paeon (Bishop for MP and Rook for TP).

Source

[Connor]

If you ask me, support abilities you actively plan out and use relative to the situation like Foe Requiem / Ballad and Paeon / Autoturret Promotion will always be superior to ‘just hit it once then the long ass cooldown will decide when to use it’.

Like yeah they might have all had their issues as anything does, but I’d say they’re the lesser of two evils when compared to 120-sec mind-rot meta

[Valence]

Hypercharge didn't drain MP, it was just a 120 second cooldown that lasted 20 seconds. The one that drained MP was Promotion, which was the MCH equivalent to Mage's Ballad and Army's Paeon (Bishop for MP and Rook for TP).

Source

Thank you for jogging my memory.

[mallleable]

The thing is if you want to remove raid buffs, you have to remove all of them -- including from BRD, DNC, and AST (these are the most popular exceptions). Back when Trick Attack was a 60 second buff, pretty much all jobs' rotations, and openers were theorycrafted to play into Trick windows. And those practices carried over even if you didn't have a NIN in your party. Everything orbited around Trick Attack, and everything still does. So you have to remove, and not add any possible source of damage synergy.

[Aravell]

Hard disagree with removing all raid buffs. That would just turn content from cooperative efforts between players into 8 solo players freestyling in the vicinity of 7 other players.

Everybody doing their own thing, don't even care what anyone else is doing, they could be mashing 1 singular button for all you care, everyone soloing the boss in their own little world until someone trips up and blows up the entire party.

Does a solo experience near 7 other people sound fun to you? Because a game where you don't have to cooperate with anyone in your team sounds like a dreadfully boring MMO to me.

[Valence]

That's surely more and more where the game has been heading outside of raid buffs. Less healing required, tanks that cannot die, no more prey mechanics or damaged directly targeted at anything else than the tanks, more and more onus on mechanics that require individual completion than truly cooperative actions...