Do you think that Picto needs a nerf?

[Supersnow845]

When PCT blocks me out of playing the content I want, then there is no reason for me to play is there.

I do not want my job to be OP, I just want things to be normal so one job isn't negating the reason for other jobs to exist. In Stormblood, BLM and Sam was excluded in PF as well because the buffs from ninja, drg monk, smn etc was way more damage than what a BLM or SAM could bring.

That Pictomancer alone made the changes to limit break generation, says pretty clearly something is broken with PCT, as that was to prevent parties to bring 2-4PCT

If PCT needs to be ludicrously overpowered for people to enjoy the job, then that job should be removed from the game. Again if PCT was balanced, I bet majority of people would abandon it completely

“I want things to be normal so one job isn’t engaging the reason for other jobs to exist”

See this right here is the core of the problem with BLM (and MCH/SAM/VPR) if you don’t have utility then your job is “instantly useless” as soon as any other job does more damage than it and has utility. That’s the reason why BLM was garbage in 4.x, early 5.0 and now in 7.0. PCT is too strong (though I have no idea why you think that people only play it because it’s strong given SMN was the most popular job last expansion and has always been bad in 6.0, WHM and WAR are similar) but the state of balance of BLM NECESSITATES it being first so that it isn’t cried about being useless

This is the core of the problem and it’s larger than PCT because as you point out this isn’t a new issue.

“I have to be first or I’m useless” is simply a bad balancing mantra and it’s regularly why BLM ends up in the 4.x and 7.x situation. For example would you be so opposed to PCT’s damage (more so in savage than ultimate) if BLM actually had some unique utility only it could do?

The existence of the structure of downtime is always going to favour PCT, even if it was 1% ahead of DRG it would still be destroying BLM. PCT is too strong and you’ll hear no complaints on a nerf from me but do you understand how BLM’s balancing mantra is a deeper problem than PCT’s existence

[Lyth]

...

I would have thought that you of all people ought to be able have some empathy on this point, because you yourself very recently gave up the healer role because of dissatisfaction around role balancing. You were lucky in that you found a job and role that still clicked with you. Not everyone is so fortunate. I don't understand your stance on this at all.

What you're describing is not a niche. It's complete dominance. You can still have your opportunities to shine without it. If jobs are well balanced, burst and continuous uptime jobs can both have their time in the spotlight. This isn't at all difficult to achieve. But everyone needs to be willing to share, and we need a job balance team that is willing and capable of facilitating it.

[Supersnow845]

Surely you of all people ought to be able demonstrate some empathy on this point, because you yourself very recently gave up the healer role because of dissatisfaction around role balancing. You were lucky in that you found a job and role that still clicked with you. Not everyone is so fortunate. I don't understand your stance on this at all.

What you're describing is not a niche. It's complete dominance. You can still have your opportunities to shine without it. If jobs are well balanced, burst and continuous uptime jobs can both have their time in the spotlight. This isn't at all difficult to achieve. But everyone needs to be willing to share, and we need a job balance team that is willing and capable of facilitating it.

And you won’t hear me opposing everyone having a niche, which is why I don’t oppose PCT nerfs (like do I need to put this in my signature or something). Hell my entire problem with the healers is they are so homogenised the only niche any healer has is SCH just being better than everyone perpetually which you’ll notice I also oppose. PCT’s niche is ultimate (well high downtime), if it isn’t first in ultimate it’s not a niche. I never said it has to be as far ahead in ultimate, that’s why I regularly said 1-2% ahead of DRG. That niche can be narrowed if more jobs get niches but right now it’s the only job with a niche

My point is that the idea of selfish DPS being “I’m either first or I’m last” is a flawed balancing design because it regularly leads to BLM being terrible because as soon as it’s not first it’s by definition terrible. By the same definition PCT’s niche shouldn’t be “I’m better than everyone at everything and way better than everyone at ultimates”

The above discussion isn’t me saying “PCT doesn’t need to be nerfed in savage because it’s not ahead” I just like to argue so it’s more a casual discussion with the anendum it doesn’t change my stance PCT needs nerfs

[Lyth]

Doing more DPS than everyone else is not a niche. The term should ideally be reserved for unique/creative support functionality, which this game is devoid of. Every DPS should have its moment to shine in terms of doing damage, because that's what it says on the tin.

I think the best balance is when there's not one singular job consistently on top. The problem is that PCT has been that singular job for most of this expansion, and everyone knows this by now. I don't think that you would have seen nearly as much pushback from the community if PCT had just about crept ahead on FRU after being a middling choice throughout the preceding Savage tier. We all know that downtime favors burst. That means that uptime should actually actively work against burst. The best burst job should also be the worst uptime job. Then you design fights that highlight a variety of uptime conditions, including varying degrees of melee downtime.

This is not just one singular problem. FRU was simply the final straw for some people.

[Supersnow845]

That’s what I mean “every job should have a chance to shine”, PCT’s time to shine is arguably ultimates as they have heavy downtime, that’s why I called it a niche, if more jobs had a niche then it’s fine to narrow PCT’s niche, but since it’s the only job that has a niche it kinda ends up broadly ultimate right now

The fact it’s also been the best choice outside of ultimates is a problem I agree but there is previously little enough that can be done now to rectify past grievances other than ensuring PCT isn’t also first by default in the next savage tier

But overall the wider problem is job design, PCT is just a victim of its own success in that it’s the only job with a niche

[Altera]

That’s what I mean “every job should have a chance to shine”, PCT’s time to shine is arguably ultimates as they have heavy downtime, that’s why I called it a niche, if more jobs had a niche then it’s fine to narrow PCT’s niche, but since it’s the only job that has a niche it kinda ends up broadly ultimate right now

The fact it’s also been the best choice outside of ultimates is a problem I agree but there is previously little enough that can be done now to rectify past grievances other than ensuring PCT isn’t also first by default in the next savage tier

But overall the wider problem is job design, PCT is just a victim of its own success in that it’s the only job with a niche

Imo with PCT being this different to all other jobs, incl Viper which is the new job of DT, maybe PCT should be removed from the game and reintroduced in 8.0 when they do their so-called job reworks.

If PCT is allowed to run rampant for the entirety of Dawntrail, excluding jobs from content, I will not accept that and ready to cancel my subscription for the first time in almost 14 years now. I'm fine with other jobs doing a bit better than my own BLM, but PCT is just WAY too much. PCT is game breaking in current game and raid design. Or turn PCT into a Limited Job until 8.0.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Imo with PCT being this different to all other jobs, incl Viper which is the new job of DT, maybe PCT should be removed from the game and reintroduced in 8.0 when they do their so-called job reworks.

If PCT is allowed to run rampant for the entirety of Dawntrail, excluding jobs from content, I will not accept that and ready to cancel my subscription for the first time in almost 14 years now. I'm fine with other jobs doing a bit better than my own BLM, but PCT is just WAY too much. PCT is game breaking in current game and raid design. Or turn PCT into a Limited Job until 8.0.

Honestly, you are being really unreasonable with the request to remove PCT from the game... I can't talk for everyone but PCT is the reason I came back to the caster role bc in EW my fav job, the job I clicked with and loved was destroyed just bc some ppl didn't like that it wasn't a "real" FF summoner and it was "too hard". Now I have a caster I like you and few others want to completely remove it bc it has the niche of being good in fights with downtime. Before you said anything, yes I do agree PCT needs nerfs. It is doing to much dps but this leads to my question to you. You said PCT needs to be balanced, while what is a balance to you? Where does PCT need to be DPS-wise to you? Im curious where you would put PCT.

[Altera]

Honestly, you are being really unreasonable with the request to remove PCT from the game... I can't talk for everyone but PCT is the reason I came back to the caster role bc in EW my fav job, the job I clicked with and loved was destroyed just bc some ppl didn't like that it wasn't a "real" FF summoner and it was "too hard". Now I have a caster I like you and few others want to completely remove it bc it has the niche of being good in fights with downtime. Before you said anything, yes I do agree PCT needs nerfs. It is doing to much dps but this leads to my question to you. You said PCT needs to be balanced, while what is a balance to you? Where does PCT need to be DPS-wise to you? Im curious where you would put PCT.

Being good is one thing, being was too overpowered is another. The PCT has caused Savage tuning to be easier than they wanted due to they decided to buff every other job to to get get closer to PCT and they are still behind on damage.
PCT forced the change to Limit Break generation as to prevent groups from just bringing 2-4 PCTs.
Caused all other casters to be pretty worthless to bring to FRU
And will just likely break Chaotic 24 man by all group not caring about limit breaks or the 1 job each party bonus.

So yeah. Good you found a job you clicked with. But be honest, if it was just above RDM or higher on damage, would you still play PCT or would losing the OP state cause you to drop it?

[Altera]

Honestly, you are being really unreasonable with the request to remove PCT from the game... I can't talk for everyone but PCT is the reason I came back to the caster role bc in EW my fav job, the job I clicked with and loved was destroyed just bc some ppl didn't like that it wasn't a "real" FF summoner and it was "too hard". Now I have a caster I like you and few others want to completely remove it bc it has the niche of being good in fights with downtime. Before you said anything, yes I do agree PCT needs nerfs. It is doing to much dps but this leads to my question to you. You said PCT needs to be balanced, while what is a balance to you? Where does PCT need to be DPS-wise to you? Im curious where you would put PCT.

I would place PCT between RPR and RDM unless PCT drops its party buffs and just make those buffs personal. If PCT would be a pure selfish Job, being a easy job to play and not punishing rotations, it would be a bit below BLM still. A harder job to play perfectly should reward better damage as a trade-off imo

[Altera]

Deleted due to double posted for some reason