FFXIV has lost it's heart

[ZephyrMenodora]

I will summarize for you.

I said Wuk Lamat is not a shonen protagonist.

Someone else proposed basic criteria for a shonen protagonist and said she meets this criteria so she's a shonen protagonist.

I listed other characters across fiction that also meet that criteria, asking if they're also shonen protagonists.

You'll have to engage your brain a little bit here so try really hard for a second, but the implication I'm making is they are not shonen protagonists and therefore they are not equivalent. This therefore illustrates why the criteria they laid out is wrong.

Phew! We did it!

Regardless of nitpicking over terminology, Wuk does have moments of completely unearned power increases for someone who only had trained in a confined setting and barely has any experience out in the world. Outperforming the WOL in the end trial is ridiculous.

[Exmo]

Regardless of nitpicking over terminology, Wuk does have moments of completely unearned power increases for someone who only had trained in a confined setting and barely has any experience out in the world. Outperforming the WOL in the end trial is ridiculous.

I don't think it's really useful to compare the fiction communicated of the player and their party during a trial versus that of an NPC, since we and they operate on different fictional bases. For example, in the past Estinien could withstand an attack from Nidhogg that would leave s player in critical health. And Lyse could one-shot a mob in a level 70 dungeon that we could barely dent. But as players we all understand that this is not the game saying these characters outperform us in combat.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I don't think it's really useful to compare the fiction communicated of the player and their party during a trial versus that of an NPC, since we and they operate on different fictional bases. For example, in the past Estinien could withstand an attack from Nidhogg that would leave s player in critical health. And Lyse could one-shot a mob in a level 70 dungeon that we could barely dent. But as players we all understand that this is not the game saying these characters outperform us in combat.

Estinian having a moment against Nidhogg was completely earned in his story as the Azure Dragoon. Lyse one-shotting what? A trash mob? Who cares. Whatever mob she killed was such a non-issue I don't even know what your referencing.

Wuk's moments just felt unearned and forced. Along with her overpowering the entire story, many of us just had enough of her and that was a final straw.

[Exmo]

Estinian having a moment against Nidhogg was completely earned in his story as the Azure Dragoon. Lyse one-shotting what? A trash mob? Who cares. Whatever mob she killed was such a non-issue I don't even know what your referencing.

Wuk's moments just felt unearned and forced. Along with her overpowering the entire story, many of us just had enough of her and that was a final straw.

Ok. I don't think Wuk Lamat's moment was unearned. I think it was earned through the MSQ of Dawntrail, which went to great lengths to develop her character and show how she grows.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Ok. I don't think Wuk Lamat's moment was unearned. I think it was earned through the MSQ of Dawntrail, which went to great lengths to develop her character and show how she grows.

Sure.... walking around her own country and having the Scions solve almost all of her problems, or just dumb-lucking her way into a solution really feels earned. Certainly she should be able to find interdimensional rifts with her dumb luck and then out-dps a raid team by vast margins for ???? reasons. She sure should be more powerful than WoL's with 10 years of star-saving experience who felled the Gods and the Endsinger.

[Exmo]

Sure.... walking around her own country and having the Scions solve almost all of her problems, or just dumb-lucking her way into a solution really feels earned. Certainly she should be able to find interdimensional rifts with her dumb luck and then out-dps a raid team by vast margins for ???? reasons. She sure should be more powerful than WoL's with 10 years of star-saving experience who felled the Gods and the Endsinger.

Again, there are instances throughout the game of NPCs dealing more damage than the players' party, so it's weird to focus on only this one as egregious.

Regarding the scions taking her around her country and solving all her problems... That's not what happened. There's a fair spread of each character in the group collaborating on the solution. For example, in the Mamool Ja village, her well-substantiated resistance to the initial trial lead to her and friends investigating the townsfolk's problems and together finding a solution. She acted as the driver, and her people-focused approach brought together others from different disciplines.

[xbahax92]

Again, there are instances throughout the game of NPCs dealing more damage than the players' party, so it's weird to focus on only this one as egregious.

Mhm, that's why the very same girl also gets kidnapped by a random weak NPC. But it would be obviously egregious to think about it.

[ovIm]

Wuk's moments just felt unearned and forced. Along with her overpowering the entire story, many of us just had enough of her and that was a final straw.

As much as I find the "Wuk Lamat Bad" discourse exhausting, these sentences ring the truest though. Because of the writing, Wuk was put as a centerpiece of almost every cutscene in the 7.0 MSQ. Of course that is not going to be seen positive by everyone at the end of the day.

And as for that final bossfight... it was just insulting to the player. Sphene considers us the biggest danger (rightfully so), pushes out the other two so we can have a final epic clash, only to have to be saved by Wuk who was much weaker than us just moments ago to the point of being labelled "irrelevant" by Queen Eternal. That just felt bad.

[Basteala]

As much as I find the "Wuk Lamat Bad" discourse exhausting, these sentences ring the truest though. Because of the writing, Wuk was put as a centerpiece of almost every cutscene in the 7.0 MSQ. Of course that is not going to be seen positive by everyone at the end of the day.

And as for that final bossfight... it was just insulting to the player. Sphene considers us the biggest danger (rightfully so), pushes out the other two so we can have a final epic clash, only to have to be saved by Wuk who was much weaker than us just moments ago to the point of being labelled "irrelevant" by Queen Eternal. That just felt bad.

I think one of the worst things about that scene isn't even Wuk Lamat's interference, but--ironically--how much it downplays the connection the player had with Wuk Lamat. Whether we like it or not, Wuk Lamat feels she has a strong familial bond with us after the Rite of Succession. And why not? We *did* help her turn from weak willed woman with bravado into someone (allegedly, the plot doesn't do the best job of it) with a strong will and courage to match, with enough humility to ask for and accept help, all while supporting her onto the throne. There's a lot for her to feel that connection to us.

But then...her and Sphene basically have one tour in Alexandria, and find out they have a few things in common over low poly grapes. The screen time they share together can probably be recorded in literal minutes, and you can count the quests on one hand.

Yet somehow, somehow, this fosters such a strong programming that it can overcome Queen Eternal's programming. I don't necessarily hate the idea in an FF14 universe, but there was so little time for that bond to steep that the situation borders on lunacy. This would be like if we met Emet Selch properly only after returning to Eulmore, and then everything else happens the same way. The impact would just not be there.

The new writing staff, more than anything, needs to learn the value of time.

[Daralii]

Estinian having a moment against Nidhogg was completely earned in his story as the Azure Dragoon. Lyse one-shotting what? A trash mob? Who cares. Whatever mob she killed was such a non-issue I don't even know what your referencing.

Wuk's moments just felt unearned and forced. Along with her overpowering the entire story, many of us just had enough of her and that was a final straw.

The important thing about the moment in Ghimlyt is that Lyse or one of a few other NPCs(I think Yugiri, Pippin, and Hien are the others) will LB3 the iron giant and then stay back to guard the rear with Kan-E because the WoL's party is better suited to the task ahead than they are. This is never the case with Wuk. She is always at the fore, even after becoming co-ruler of an empire, and it is always the correct decision because she's the strongest because the plot says so.