Melee ineffective in 7.1 Frontlines

[Archeron]

Before 7.1, on my melee jobs I wouldn't think twice about running towards the enemy team, blasting off my kit before quickly withdrawing. Now I get halfway to the enemy team, I'm hit with every single form of CC in the game and bounced around like a ping pong ball, and killed in seconds.

Without an entourage of healers, or an invuln spell, it seems pointless to even try charging enemy lines anymore, and the majority of NA seems to agree with this as most of my teams seem to consist of 80-90% ranged jobs (Ninja may as well be lobbed in with ranged at this point...) People who I play alongside frequently now exclusively play ranged jobs.

It seems to me class balancing has taken several, massive leaps backwards compared to the system we had prior. Unless I'm missing something, that makes melee somewhat more playable, I don't think I will continue to play Frontlines beyond my FoMo season rewards.

[Mawlzy]

Before 7.1, on my melee jobs I wouldn't think twice about running towards the enemy team, blasting off my kit before quickly withdrawing. Now I get halfway to the enemy team, I'm hit with every single form of CC in the game and bounced around like a ping pong ball, and killed in seconds.

Without an entourage of healers, or an invuln spell, it seems pointless to even try charging enemy lines anymore, and the majority of NA seems to agree with this as most of my teams seem to consist of 80-90% ranged jobs (Ninja may as well be lobbed in with ranged at this point...) People who I play alongside frequently now exclusively play ranged jobs.

It seems to me class balancing has taken several, massive leaps backwards compared to the system we had prior. Unless I'm missing something, that makes melee somewhat more playable, I don't think I will continue to play Frontlines beyond my FoMo season rewards.

100% agree with this. It's particularly bad on Shatter, I suspect because with the ice-licking breaks between actual PvP, the enemy has all their CC up and ready to immobilize any tank/melee trying to participate. If your burst begins with a long animation, it feels even worse.

KOs of melee/tank are also way higher than they used to be. Is this also the case in the 5v5 variant? I ask because, if so, I can imagine SE looking at it and "solving" the problem by a tweak to damage reduction. Which obviously isn't the solution at all. Being unable to move and not dying for an extra 0.2s isn't going to make the brawling jobs fun.

[AlliciaCapulet]

It seems to me class balancing has taken several, massive leaps backwards compared to the system we had prior. Unless I'm missing something, that makes melee somewhat more playable, I don't think I will continue to play Frontlines beyond my FoMo season rewards.

Unbalanced PVP, that's what it is. In CC melee are now way stronger than before 7.1, while in frontline they now are bad. And in CC, some ranged like MCH are now so weak because of the big nerf they had. Even the "buff" of the 7.11 doesn't balance them yet.

[Mawlzy]

Unbalanced PVP, that's what it is. In CC melee are now way stronger than before 7.1, while in frontline they now are bad. And in CC, some ranged like MCH are now so weak because of the big nerf they had. Even the "buff" of the 7.11 doesn't balance them yet.

That's interesting, but illustrates the well-known problem. You can't balance both 24v24v24 and 5v5 through damage modifiers alone.

[Valence]

How the times have changed... We're back to a ranged meta in FL and it's been what... 5+ years of the same melee meta?

Unbalanced PVP, that's what it is. In CC melee are now way stronger than before 7.1, while in frontline they now are bad. And in CC, some ranged like MCH are now so weak because of the big nerf they had. Even the "buff" of the 7.11 doesn't balance them yet.

To be honest MCH's damage output has gone through the roof in CC since 7.1. It was already high but now it's just... very good. Like really, really good. Doesn't mean the job is in a perfect state though.

[AlliciaCapulet]

How the times have changed... We're back to a ranged meta in FL and it's been what... 5+ years of the same melee meta?



To be honest MCH's damage output has gone through the roof in CC since 7.1. It was already high but now it's just... very good. Like really, really good. Doesn't mean the job is in a perfect state though.

Well, basic skills rotation have a good damage now, I won't say the opposite. LB tho is still easily blockable since 7.1 and didn't get more damage despite the increase of the HP pool of everyone, making it one of the less good lb right now, nothing comparable to monk LB right now.

They got way more squishy than they were, so, you REALLY need a team to be able to do your job of carrying a win. I'm not telling it's impossible, but, the impact of a MCH in the game is less than a melee DPS. Those can carry a game alone into a win.

If all your teammates ignore you as a MCH and leave you alone with all the people jumping on you, and just go chase, it's over, you'll basicly do nothing. Any melee in CC car go in a 1v2 / 1v3 and survive for a while. The MCH is dead in 0.1 sec alone, so even with better basic skill damage, it doesn't matter if you can't survive.

It was just easier to rank up last season as the MCH had more impact on the game, or, to put it in other words, was less dependant of the teammates. I'm slowly getting there, I'm plat 2 right now, making my way up with a MCH, but it's not the easiest job to rank up and I really feel it's harder than last season. But at least the queue time is better.

[Loggos]

That's interesting, but illustrates the well-known problem. You can't balance both 24v24v24 and 5v5 through damage modifiers alone.

The devs' unwillingness to acknowledge that this is a real problem is quite frustrating at this point.

I know it has probably something to do with them not taking pvp as seriously/wanting to save time and resources etc. etc. but even when you are in the theoretical stage of pitching pvp mode ideas it should already be clear purely because of common sense that CC and FL are so fundamentally different in nature, objective and gameplay flow that you can't create a satisfying one-fits-all solution for both of them. Imagine the potential, the fun and unique complexities you could unlock for both modes if they had dedicated kits tailored for them.

[Valence]

Well, basic skills rotation have a good damage now, I won't say the opposite. LB tho is still easily blockable since 7.1 and didn't get more damage despite the increase of the HP pool of everyone, making it one of the less good lb right now, nothing comparable to monk LB right now.
They got way more squishy than they were, so, you REALLY need a team to be able to do your job of carrying a win. I'm not telling it's impossible, but, the impact of a MCH in the game is less than a melee DPS. Those can carry a game alone into a win.

If all your teammates ignore you as a MCH and leave you alone with all the people jumping on you, and just go chase, it's over, you'll basicly do nothing. Any melee in CC car go in a 1v2 / 1v3 and survive for a while. The MCH is dead in 0.1 sec alone, so even with better basic skill damage, it doesn't matter if you can't survive.

It was just easier to rank up last season as the MCH had more impact on the game, or, to put it in other words, was less dependant of the teammates. I'm slowly getting there, I'm plat 2 right now, making my way up with a MCH, but it's not the easiest job to rank up and I really feel it's harder than last season. But at least the queue time is better.

What the job has gained is more flexibility than it used to have with FMF (it already had good flexibility but a lot of constraints as well), the fortunate change from 5 hit down to 4 on WF fixed the problems the job had at 7.1 release, and the overall cleave potential of the job has propelled it to stand among the top damage pressure jobs in the game. The LB has been nerfed, yes, since it's not as freely usable than it used to especially during bursts (you need the target to be stunned for that, which Anchor can help if nobody else does), and so its use has shifted a lot into punishing people out of Guard most notably, guaranteeing kills and team stagger, which true, was also possible to do before. The damage hasn't changed in relation to people's HP increasing, yes, but so has most damage overall, either gone down, or stagnated, at least when it comes to big hitters. Just look at A.Drill, and many other jobs went through the same process. But a lot also gained a lot more sustained damage, and MCH also did with FMF + blazing shot uptime. I will agree though that Spite comparatively to something wild like Seiton or even Meteodrive, is just inferior in all points, and always has been, unfortunately.

MCH has always been half team dependent, and this hasn't changed. All ranged jobs rely heavily on their frontline, else they just crumble, and it's been a thing since 6.1. If anything I'm surprised you feel squishier as MCH because to me, it feels sturdier. Overall the HP pools that have increased the most in % are ranged HP and squishies, and the gap with melees has actually thinned, which has always been something I've wanted since forever, especially since melees have so much more defensive tools to allow them to stay on the frontline and eat hits all the time. And yes, this makes them direct counters and harassers to ranged jobs, and I'm still surprised that this community has yet to learn to peel off for their ranged backline when they get harassed or dogpiled. Even in crystal games which one time out of two turn out to be total clownfiestas, you get melees diving ahead, fighting everywhere but around the point, and leaving the ranged fending for themselves. Then they wonder why their backline collapsed and got bullied to death when they finally come back and get mowed down in turn because the team is staggered.

Also one thing, while the best carry jobs remain the meta and melee jobs due to their lower reliance on the team, theirs has also increased as well however. Just ask MNK mains about it.

[Esmoire]

Monk is really good but I am also just playing as a mage most of the time, ha ha.

[IDontPetLalas]

Personally, I don't like balancing that greatly favours one type of job over another. OP may have (or may not, to be fair) that we've be living through a period when melee had a relatively easy life, so it's normal to be unhappy when the balance swings the other way. has it swung too far, to favour ranged- or is it that to play a melee, you need the support of the rest of your team- as you should and you can't just yolo your way and take on 5 ranged even if they hit their buttons? Edit - btw, NOT saying that OP was doing that, I've just seen too many being able to do that.

Given Square's lest than stellar balancing, I would agree, they may have adjusted a bit too far in favour of ranged, however melee doesn't equal invulnerable if they want to play that role of "we wade into the forefront, we protect the weak/fragile" - then a good half of them should learn to peel/ coordinate as a melee should- with their healers/ranged- which at half of them don't. Being generous there.