Why people are bad at the game, and why they never learn to play it.

[IDontPetLalas]

It comes off as rather disingenuous when the discussion turns to comparing people who are being AFK to people who are not performing at an optional level. They are not equivalent.
Now, whether it should be acceptable, as a community, to party with people who are AFK in a duty, or in Frontline- is one discussion, and there are multiple threads, in the PvP forum, on people's experiences on just that topic.

However, in a collaborative game, especially in one with random parties, pre-formed parties, and multiple levels of content difficulty, with multiple types of players, all with varied interests- it comes off as vastly overly simplistic to see that there is one single, common tolerated view amongst all players of what is acceptable in all of these situations.

Square recently improved the Hall of the Novice, if they added additional tutorials or job guides I would be all for it- however you would still find people who are "sub-optimal" and don't care- as long as they still enjoy the game, and can complete the content. With respect to the people who they are completing it with them - well- they either don't mind doing the slight bit more extra, don't mind if a dungeon takes 2 minutes or 5 minutes more, or want to help them.

[AllenThyl]

It comes off as rather disingenuous when the discussion turns to comparing people who are being AFK to people who are not performing at an optional level. They are not equivalent.

It's only "disingenuous" because you are a raging contrarian. The context of this discussion is the video linked in the OP, which lists behavior like cure1 fishing healers and dps not using aoes in dungeons. But you probably didn't even bother skimming the video, just coming in here to pick some fight however you can for the updoots or something. And yes, these behaviors are equivalent, because they are essentially dismissive of the other people's interest just to get personal rewards. It's like showing up to a double badminton match without a racket and with no intention to move. And while that is a perfectly legal way to play Badminton within the framework of the rules, the other 3 might not see this kind of behavior as conducive to their version of a "fun badminton experience".

However, in a collaborative game, especially in one with random parties, pre-formed parties, and multiple levels of content difficulty, with multiple types of players, all with varied interests- it comes off as vastly overly simplistic to see that there is one single, common tolerated view amongst all players of what is acceptable in all of these situations.

If someone queues for a combat duty, the completion of the combat duty should be their interest in the first place. People who aren't interested in completing the combat duty should not be queuing for said combat duty in the first place. The fact that this kind of behavior is normalized pretty much ONLY within the video game context is completely asinine. It's video game addiction, nothing else. People need help and therapy to get their addiction under control, not being carried through content they don't want to engage with in the first place.

With respect to the people who they are completing it with them - well- they either don't mind doing the slight bit more extra, don't mind if a dungeon takes 2 minutes or 5 minutes more, or want to help them.

And there we have it, the real reason no amount game design will ever improve the skill of people not even doing the bare minimum to pull at least some of their weight: The enabler community. As I said, practically every learning opportunity is either passively or actively wasted.

These topics always infuriate me because it always boils down to, every single time...elitism and the idea that one cannot have their fun in savage, extreme, and ultimate content as long as somewhere out there, some slacker (read, majority of the playerbase) is having fun engaging in content that isn't up to those standards.

All discussion so far has been explicitly framed with regards to people not even doing the bare minimum like using AoE in a dungeon as dps. But hey, good for you to ignore all that and to stick it to those dang elitists! Gotta collect all them updoots or something.

[MorticiaFhey]

And there we have it, the real reason no amount game design will ever improve the skill of people not even doing the bare minimum to pull at least some of their weight: The enabler community. As I said, practically every learning opportunity is either passively or actively wasted.

i agree with you. it's gotten substantially worse in the time that i've been playing, to the point where i've been kicked from dungeons for asking people to do the very bare minimum like using their aoe skills on multiple targets. just recently i had a 30 minute run of the 97 dungeon because neither of the dps used their aoe skills at any point.

the issue seems to be that there's a disparity in what people consider the 'bare minimum' in this game. to me, that's actively doing your best. you don't have to play like the top 5% or anything, but i mean like using aoes on multiple enemies, doing damage when there's no healing needed, using your mitigation, wall to wall, using your dots and buffs, etc. but to someone else, that sounds like i'm asking a lot, and maybe their only requirement is that you're pressing literally any button. and before anyone wants to cry elitism, this is not an elitism problem. there are plenty of casual players who do all the things i've listed. like it was mentioned above, it's a fundamental difference in the way people view other peoples' time. and unfortunately that's not really a problem ffxiv can fix.

[IDontPetLalas]

It's only "disingenuous" because you are a raging contrarian. The context of this discussion is the video linked in the OP, which lists behavior like cure1 fishing healers and dps not using aoes in dungeons. But you probably didn't even bother skimming the video, just coming in here to pick some fight however you can for the updoots or something. And yes, these behaviors are equivalent, because they are essentially dismissive of the other people's interest just to get personal rewards. It's like showing up to a double badminton match without a racket and with no intention to move. And while that is a perfectly legal way to play Badminton within the framework of the rules, the other 3 might not see this kind of behavior as conducive to their version of a "fun badminton experience".



If someone queues for a combat duty, the completion of the combat duty should be their interest in the first place. People who aren't interested in completing the combat duty should not be queuing for said combat duty in the first place. The fact that this kind of behavior is normalized pretty much ONLY within the video game context is completely asinine. It's video game addiction, nothing else. People need help and therapy to get their addiction under control, not being carried through content they don't want to engage with in the first place.





nd there we have it, the real reason no amount game design will ever improve the skill of people not even doing the bare minimum to pull at least some of their weight: The enabler community. As I said, practically every learning opportunity is either passively or actively wasted.



All discussion so far has been explicitly framed with regards to people not even doing the bare minimum like using AoE in a dungeon as dps. But hey, good for you to ignore all that and to stick it to those dang elitists! Gotta collect all them updoots or something.

A raging contrarian? Is that anything like the Raging Grannies? LMAO, and what in the world is an "updoot? I honestly don't know why you're obsessed with thinking that I want to fight, I don't care, I just want to follow a discussion, lol.
In addition, I never, inferred, nor encouraged that people should queue for a duty with the intention of not completing it, and I would question why you would even question why some people would want to assist others who are less skilled in an MMORPG? I didn't say that it was done with the intent not to help them improve- you somehow concluded that , it seems to further your own argument. Not to listen to anyone else. Note that I didn't refer to anyone as "elitist" , I haven't "stuck it' to anyone.

So, to conclude- any fighting rests in your own imagination, and as for your precious "updoots", here take them.

[VanillaWafer]

Note that I didn't refer to anyone as "elitist" , I haven't "stuck it' to anyone.

Please reread the post, that elitist comment was not directed at you.

[IDontPetLalas]

Please reread the post, that elitist comment was not directed at you.

I appreciate the suggestion, consider that I was being proactive, in any case once was enough, thank you.