Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[magitekwitch]

Although I kinda liked the realistic approach on Au Ra limbal rings on 7.0, I felt like they lost an identity mark that made their eyes different and special from other races. I didn't expect this to be fixed, and so soon even, and I'm really thankful to have my old eyes back! I would really appreciate to have both options available tho.

I couldn't take comparison pics before the change but even with different angles I think the difference is very clear. The pupils are still bigger, but the new eyes look a lot closer to 6.55! (and thank you for the fixed glasses transparency!)


I went to the aesthetician to adjust the color since it's a little too bright now, and I noticed that the limbal rings look completely different on the aetherial background?? They look exactly like in 7.0! But in all the other backgrounds, they look like in 7.1. Is this because of a different lightning? Does that mean the impression of the eyes will vary between cutscenes? Or is it just that they haven't upgraded the chara creator screen with the 7.1 fixes? I don't know, it's very confusing.

Pics for reference, same eyes, same color, only changing from aetherial background to shroud background:

[OtherworldSeeker]

This is not something new to this patch but...

I really hate how huge the limbal rings are now. You can't even see her irises at all unless you're zoomed in in gpose. They're easily 3 times as wide as the iris and completely drown it out.

Could we have super wide irises be an optional thing? Please? I miss the red of my WoL's eyes. It used to be so nice and vibrant.

[Liamont]

Reading through all of this and also the JP thread, there's a few things that has been really bothering me about this whole endeavor.

1. Why are they going back and updating ARR zones when, arguably, the most important priority they should have right now is the characters? Since that is one of the biggest things that draw people in and keep people playing in FFXIV at least? As far as I know, very few people were complaining about the ARR zones?

2. In addition, don't they have the original old models? Surely it is not that difficult to put them side by side, or even overlay them to see the exact differences between the two? If we as customers can make GIFs overlaying two screenshots to point out some rather blatant differences between models, surely it would be easier for them—with the source material—to spot the difference?

It is frankly rather baffling to me that the customers are being called on to tell the management what needs to be changed. I don't understand, shouldn't their dev team be more attuned to minute details and have an eye for exactness compared to the customer? Why does it feel like many changes are done sloppily, or as if they can't see the difference at all? It should not be on the customer to be able to spot the differences that, while "minute", also change the entire feel and recognizability of a face.

3. It honestly is starting to feel more and more to me that they wanted to change things for the sake of changing them, because they themselves didn't like what they had before and wanted to "update" it. Completely disregarding the fact that many people spent literal years making memories of their character, and thus would not want to log in and see a stranger staring back at them. Even though I tried to be hopeful in my post earlier, but to be frank I am really tired of waiting with baited breath on whether or not my characters were changed back to what I remember then as. At this rate, it will possibly take literal years to get a final answer, and I don't know about you, but I think there's something wrong with needing to wait years for the chance of my characters returning.

So, I would really like some transparency on this issue. They give detailed notes for the rest of the patch, why is it just the character feature corrections that do not get detailed notes? Can we please get a timeline and a detailed list of what changes will be made, for what race, face type, mouth type, eye type, etc from now on? That way we are not kept in this state of constant suspense.

That said, I am thankful that the dev team is still making changes, and I hope that they will hire or assign people who are more detail oriented to the tweaking process. Because right now it feels like those types of people are sorely lacking in the department.

[sindriiisgaming]

wasn't there supposed to be some kind of graphical downscaling this patch? my character still looks like a jojo reject

[Larirawiel]

1. Why are they going back and updating ARR zones when, arguably, the most important priority they should have right now is the characters? Since that is one of the biggest things that draw people in and keep people playing in FFXIV at least? As far as I know, very few people were complaining about the ARR zones?

I guess, the people, who rework the old zones are not the same people who rework the character models. And letting all people rework the models could do more harm than good. Software development does not scale very well with the head count. Adding more people to a software development team can slow it down. Yes, it sounds strange but it is what it is.

2. In addition, don't they have the original old models? Surely it is not that difficult to put them side by side, or even overlay them to see the exact differences between the two? If we as customers can make GIFs overlaying two screenshots to point out some rather blatant differences between models, surely it would be easier for them—with the source material—to spot the difference?

They have surely the old models and they can surely compare them.

But the case is more complicated. A character is not only a model, it is a combination of a model, textures and lighting tricks ala normal-/shadow-/parallax maps. And especially the third part is the problematic one. It seems, that the devs are incapable to create correct normal-/shadow-/parallax maps. And the bigger problem is, they were also completely wrong in the pre 7.0 game the whole time. But it seems, that the people got used to it and did not complain about it.

And i do not know the reason why the devs struggle so hard with creating correct normal-/shadow-/parallax maps. Maybe they have some weird restrictions ala "correct normal-/shadow-/parallax maps cost too much performance" or "it will not run on the PS4 because it needs too much memory" or something like that.

And the more frustrating part is, i am active in some nightclub discords and i see modded characters there. And then i wonder, how can it be, that some modders, who create those mods unpaid in their free time, can do so much better work than the FF14 devs. I simply do not get it.




Cheers

[Alice_Rivers]

And the more frustrating part is, i am active in some nightclub discords and i see modded characters there. And then i wonder, how can it be, that some modders, who create those mods unpaid in their free time, can do so much better work than the FF14 devs. I simply do not get it.

That's the easiest question to answer: The modders care.

[DynnDiablos]

I think what needs to happen is some concrete details for folks. No more little changes here and there and adjustments. What is the devs team actual reality vs. player wants/desires/perceptions. I see the complaints and feedback in here, some are for bigger changes many are for even tiniest of details. I think the expectations vs. reality is skewed.

If Yoshi P and team could just come out and say, this is exactly what we are still doing, it is stopping in 7.X and that's it. At least folks won't keep wishing, hoping and huffing copium. Eventually, the team will say no more, this is it, take it or leave it. So it would be good to set expectations properly.

[Aco505]

how can it be, that some modders, who create those mods unpaid in their free time, can do so much better work than the FF14 devs. I simply do not get it.

I am surprised you say this when the answer is because it's not the same implementing something client side than server side. Does this mean SE should be excused because of this? Of course not, but introducing high quality textures for the entire game, for instance, has way more implications than for a single computer.

That said, there are things like the viera/hrothgar hat situation, in which a single modder was able to fix the head pieces for them, that simply have no explanation besides the fact that they just don't want to bother with it because it'd take time and resources that someone at the company isn't willing to provide.

[Loggos]

1. Why are they going back and updating ARR zones when, arguably, the most important priority they should have right now is the characters? Since that is one of the biggest things that draw people in and keep people playing in FFXIV at least? As far as I know, very few people were complaining about the ARR zones?

I wonder if those are alibi actions? By updating the zones they can signal that they are working on the graphics overhaul (of the game as a whole) and create the impression that they are involved, they care, they are on it.
But at the same time I fathom that zones are easier to update because people don't expect a near perfect translation of old models. With zones the overall outcome and feel are more important than every pebble having the same size and shape. So I think you have more liberty when updating areas while still producing a result most people will consider an improvement.
But that doesn't apply to character models. Here the devil is in the details.
By choosing the easier thing to focus on they can show more positive results (even though it's not what we've been asking for). Perhaps they hope that those results will maintain (some of) the goodwill of the playerbase.

[Daralii]

I felt like putting together a limbal ring lighting comparison while using a fantasia. Posting it as a URL instead of an image just because it's wide.

https://i.imgur.com/JhXfZVh.jpeg